Hello guys, I just read another thread about a lease in Sullivan county and thought it was a good time to let you know I will be speaking about the benefits of leasing at the D and T Expo later this month. I understand some of your frustration, but I don't think you are seeing the whole picture with regard to landowners and hunters and the tradition of leasing. My presentation touches on all sides and I hope to learn from and educate those that decide to attend. It will last about 40 minutes with Q and A afterwards. 430 on Saturday and 330 on Sunday. Regardless of your position, I would love to have you there. Take care. Ferb

Sounds interesting Ferb I will be up there at some point during the weekend but not a lease kind of guy. I do like to know what's going on though.

Sounds interesting. I like your companies approach of offering an agreement and accompanying insurance policy for the lease. With todays technology finding the landowner is simple and can cut out the "lease finding" companies and their profit which only adds significantly to the price of the lease.

Not opposed to leasing in general, just seeing formerly publicly property leased and access cut off to hoosier hunters and fishermen.

I have been fortunate, I suppose, in that most of my hunting agreements have been forged while sitting in the jump seat of a combine or in a farmers front room with a handshake.

I will likely be there on Thursday only to beat the crowds, otherwise I would like to see your presentation. Hope your turnout is good.

Sean, I won't be at the show. Way too many people for me. I'd like to get your thoughts though. I am probably too quick to judge when it comes to leasing or monetizing hunting in general. Can you add your thoughts here if the rest of us promise to act like grown men

Happy to. This is of course the readers digest version. The hunting lease industry works on one basic principle.. that is that the landowner is deserving of compensation for allowing access to hunt on their property. There are hundreds of hunting companies that produce quality products that we as hunters literally can't wait to buy or spend our money on. From Remington to Ford to Mathews to Under Armour. Good products made by solid companies that improve our hunting success. The one person left out of the traditional equation (in the midwest) is the landowner. He/she is the one paying the taxes, maintenance, harvest and planting costs, insurance etc. and deserves nothing? It simply doesn't add up. The landowner should be the very first person/company to receive compensation.
Of course leasing is not new. It started in the 1930s in Texas and has been a literal way of life for sportsman in the south and southeast for nearly 100 years. I speak to these people everyday and they cannot fathom some of the sentiment in the midwest. Its easy to understand though, most of us were given something of value for free for many years. To abruptly have to pay for it, is a tough pill to swallow. Its not just hunting lease companies that are reaching landowners with this message. Landowners have lawyers, accountants, trade organizations and insurance companies that are encouraging this revenue source to them.
As for the affordability of leasing, it is like anything else in this country. If you want a nicer, bigger, better anything it costs more. BUT..there are many many quality opportunities for hunters here in Indiana that are quite affordable. As many of you know, I was an Indianapolis firefighter for over 26 years. I retired in October. There are few careers in life more middle class and blue collar than fighting fire. I have been leasing for the last 8 years with a small group of friends and I wouldn't trade it for anything. FOR ME...it was and has been a very beneficial arrangement. Although I congratulate anyone that saves and is able to purchase their own ground, I simply am not interested in ownership of a small tract. I want to hunt quality ground and I am happy to make sacrifices through the year that allow me to pay my part of that experience.
That should be enough to chew on for now...I need to get back to work!!
All my best to everyone. This is still my favorite site and I assume it always will be.
One more thought...remember the first time you let a big buck walk away? It was tough at first, but once you do it once it is much easier the next time. Once you budget, plan to hunt on a lease you see the benefits and it really is much easier and makes sense the next time. (I hope that is a somewhat relevant analogy. made sense to me)

Great place to start.

http://ahuntinglease.org/are-you-ready-hunting-lease

76 I will be at the booth on Thursday. Come by and say hello. Like to meet you or anyone else from the site.

Thanks Sean. I doubt I'll ever lease but I understand why some people feel they have to.

The lease myself and my buddy were on for the last two years was one by Basecamp...we had more problems on that place than the 18 years on the one hear at home and that was only $200 vs the $3500 of BC... yea, I killed a decent buck off of it this season, a 'yote and a spring turkey...my buddy got zilch in those two years... we had problems with trespassers(multiple times, and we heavily posted the property form day one too), dogs running deer(multiple times, should have killed the **** things !!) and the landowner and his son & law deciding to play WWIII on multiple occasions behind his house with heavy artillery, AK's and the like...thank god we we not in those stands during that time.... the deer population was never there, and with a **** rock quarry 1/2 mile away the noise was unbearable at times.....of course NONE of this was mentioned in their ad or the land owner prior to the signing of the lease. It sure wasnt worth the 135 acres....needless to say, we did not resign for year 3...

Now, that being said, there is still something about having a place you can go to, but I will concentrate on state land this year, and will continue to look for a lease, and hopefully find one better...

My lease experience is similar to some of the other stories....

The landowner was accommodating, he allowed us to post the land, put up stands, and add couple of food plots. He allowed us to fish his pond as well. The Summer and early Fall went great.

Then deer season came....

We couldn't keep the locals off, they left cigarette butts under our stands and gut piles for us to find. The knew we were there primarily on weekends and stayed off then. We tried to catch them during the week but they apparently were walking in from nearby houses not driving in.

We contacted the land owner and he said he would talk to the locals but that didn't change a thing.

We killed two does off that place and that was it....The following Spring we fished the pond and when turkey season came, the locals hit the place again.....No turkeys for us that Spring...

Needless to say when the lease came up for renewal we told the landowner that we would pass....

Luckily, I haven't had to lease since. I've managed to hold onto to a few small pieces and one larger one.....for now.

what you guys are describing is worse than most public land I have hunted.

I am sure good leases can be found but sounds like you have to do your homework!

Main things to keep in mind when looking for a lease:
1-Neighbors
2-A landowner near or onsite is major advantage
3-A landowner that will prosecute

A lot like the free access to property things always work better if you establish relationships with the property owners and set things up to benefit both parties rather than just throwing cash at a stranger. Be tough to expect much in that situation.

Cody makes some good points, but in our case...

1 - We introduced ourselves to a couple of the neighbors and spoke with them several times over the Summer trying to build a relationship. One older couple even asked for our phone numbers to let us know if they saw anyone on the property other than us or the owner.

2 - I agree completely with this. Our landowner lived about a 1/2 hour away and the locals apparently knew it. BTW, we met the landowner through a friend, but even if we hadn't, I never really blamed him for the issues. I guess the lure of "free" food plots and stands was just too much for the locals to ignore...LOL.

3 - The landowner said he would prosecute, but when you can't provide names or other pertinent info it's kind of tough to proceed.

I'm sure there are plenty of good experiences with leasing, but it was truly a nightmare for us.

All I can share is that my brother-in-law is a huge farmer and he leases his land. Since he went to leasing to hunters, he will tell you that any "issues" that he once had have nearly gone completely away. He got tired of every Tom, Dick, & Harry stopping and asking to hunt. When he started leasing and word got out that he was asking real money, not bargain prices, the phone calls and visits stopped. He only has serious and much fewer inquiries now which is a huge plus for him. Also, he has found when guys are willing to spend legitimate money they tend to police and take care of the land they are spending that money on. They have a vested interest in the land at that point. Like I said, for him leasing has had a huge positive return. Further, as a farmer his business is to make a return on the land and leasing adds to that financial return.

I don't lease. I own land and I have a couple hundred acres of his that I hunt under the "family is free" program. But I've seen first hand how leasing has made his life as a farmer easier.

My family has leased for years. It provides a lot of benefits , but has downsides as well. They never get cheaper. I truly believe you are far better buying land. Go in with family or friends if you have to.

I have not really researched this so please be patient. But what is the range of pricing for leases? I see some that are several thousand dollars for 40 acres or so on Craigslist. That seems ridiculous.

I know the variables are immense but what do you guys pay and for what?

Lots better experts on here than I, however I have seen Indiana land leased from $5 to $45 per acre.

Looking at the last year property taxes paid on a parcel might be a good idea too. Would be a good starting point to approach a land owner.

I pay just under 20 per acre for 300 acres. Split 4 ways.

Ive paid as little as $200 for 40 acres and the BC property was $3500 for 135 acres(2 ways).... last evening talked to a landowner about 190 acres, I wont know until I look at it...The owner seems to be a real good guy and honest..I like that...I'm looking forward to meeting the gentleman...depends on how many are actually hunting the place, I know he said he does. I dont like a lot of people on that small of a place... I'm very picky about pressure, entrance/exits/playing the wind, etc. .... once I get boots on the ground and spend a day or two walking it I'll know if its worth it... It looks promising from the GIS satellite plat..... I'll see

We pay $15/acre for 350 acres in Switzerland Co

Is that with a agent or direct to land owner??

If I may ask...

Maybe I should quit hunting deer and just lease the farm

Or better, hunt HNF while leasing it out

Direct to land owner. My dad and I got into the lease with a couple other guys, but they left after our first year on it so we've just kept it to ourselves and family.

The landowner owns thousands of acres in SE Indiana...like north of 5000. We actually now stay in a house on the lease property during hunting seasons, after building a great relationship with him. He's even give us permission some of his properties that went un-leased for free. Even some land in Kentucky, too.

Getting your foot in the proverbial door is the hardest part and we just lucked into it. We are blessed, for sure, and do everything we can to make sure our landowner feels proud to call us "tenants". From helping with farm-upkeep, helping with cattle, keeping an eye on the property year-'round. We'll probably lease his land as long as it's available.

Pretty reasonable rate for the county with the highest deer and turkey harvest per acre.

However, I just don't get the logic in this. In 3 years time, at this current lease rate you could have saved $15,750 in cash

A nice down payment towards an asset you own forever and would see the long term value appreciate on.

Assuming a 20% down payment, that 15,750 would have gotten us about a $79k loan. The total value of the properties we hunt are worth in excess of $1,000,000 (probably closer to 1.5mil) and we have a house to stay in on the property and we don't pay taxes on all that property.

And, we can just walk away from the lease if we find something better or if we do find the right land to purchase. We own land on the Ohio River in KY that is used for camping/boating/all-around summer fun. I am sure we will eventually purchase some hunting land, but we want to stay in SE Indiana and we are just waiting for the right deal to come along at the right time.

I get what you are saying, but 350 acres even @ say..$3,000 per acre is over a $1,000,000.00.

At the rates they are paying, they can hunt a lot of land without tying up a lot of capital (in comparison to the costs of buying).

Let's say you financed a $1,000,000 @ 4% interest for 20 years. You are looking @ payments of roughly $6,000 per month.

BTW, Arlowe13 must have posted while I was typing.....

That's is exactly why own and lease land in counties with lots of public ground. I have made sure that I always have a place to hunt and I able to spread the pressure around. I do not have to worry about deer, turkey, rabbit, and squirrel hunting the same farm. This was life for me in an Doughnut county. I was down to 2 farms, one of which was mostly open fields. I now have a place to take my son squirrel hunting without worrying about pushing the deer across the property line.

If a guy wants a sizeable piece of property to roam, leasing is the answer. Just too expensive otherwise...as mentioned above. No way I could afford to buy the farm I currently hunt.

That said, I do plan to buy a small tract...say something in the 40-80 acre range before I retire.
Life is eventually going to force me to slow down and I figure having a small tract of my very own will be beneficial.

Very small tracts can be gems too.....I have 2 properties that are less than 20 acres and are great deer hunting spots:). Something to keep in mind for those looking to buy ground at some point:)

for sure. 25 acres in Tippecanoe urban zone and 27 acres in Montgomery county have both been consistent producers for me the past few years.

Oh I know about hunting smaller tracts. Grew up hunting a 27 acre strip of land. Killed my biggest buck off of it. Owner died, etc etc...

I get r done on just 20 acres....And have since I was a child. Only half of that is wooded. Location location location.

I have other places to hunt but always wind up at my own. Ten bucks on the wall and counting from that farm

Opening day crowd seemed pretty light to me...

Louisville KY deer and turkey expo was same way in my opinion, earlier this month.

I can see a lot of benefits to leasing. I'm not totally opposed to it.
My problem is this:
Base Camp works for or is hired by the landowner...Meaning the landowner is the REASON basecamp is in business. The LANDOWNER is who BC is worried about keeping happy. So, if you put your money down on a lease and start having all kinds of problems, BC doesn't care. They got your money. Now if the LANDOWNER has a problem with the person LEASING...HA, BC cares about that. Drive a truck where you were told not to? Yeah, thats addressed in the contract. Landowners grandson drives 4 wheelers thru on opening morning...Sorry, please leave a message.
If this ever gets fixed, I'd be much more interested. And I am slightly interested now.
Sean, I like you and respect you, I'd love to hear your thoughts on this?
I don't see it going away. The land is what everyone wants and they want it bad enough to pay a lot of money and deal with the problems that CAN come with it. Only way I see this getting better is if hunters refuse to sign the contract until it's fair to both parties. Like if grandson rides his quad out in the woods my lease is FREE. I mean come on...where else in life do you do business with someone and they aren't required to provide ANY customer service? This is all BUSINESS. Should be treated as such.
Btw, I plan on being out there thursday, I'll stop in and say Hi

you could sue for breach of contract I suppose if the landowner is knowingly letting this happen. How would one prove that? The burden of proof would firmly be on the leasees shoulders. And who really wants to go through that hassle anyway?

You would likely pay more in legal fees than you would recover not to mention your pain and time in court.

Right now as the law is written, Leasees have no legal power to press charges or deal with trespassers either. This might change Sean tells me, hope it does, but right now if the lease is overrun with trespassers and the landowner refuses to help and the ICO won't listen to you, legally you are SOL.

76,
That's my point! BC is working for the landowner. NOBODY is working for the hunter/leasee. The contract is completely in favor of the landowner and the middleman. Shouldn't the landowner or BC be responsible for providing land that's only being used by the leasee? If I lease a piece of land and have all kinds of problems shouldn't SOMEBODY have to make it right?
Imagine renting a house, and everytime you come home the landlords kid is asleep in your bed. Or he goes running out the back door and you find that he's been eating your porridge?

That's a good point. So, does a lease contract through BC include uninhibited rights for the leasee to prosecute trespassers without landowner intervention?

Can't say I would expect the landowner to "police" the property for trespassers, but if the leasee cannot prosecute trespassers without landowner intervention, then I would expect landowner support in the legal process as part of the lease agreement.

No

https://www.basecampleasing.com/articles/Sample-Lease-Agreement.pdf

Could hunt public. All that is free with the experience....no extra charge.