Why P&Y does not allow cameras that send pictures to home or phone.........

Joe has cameras that send photos to his phone, Joe is hunting a stand on his farm and phone gets a photo of a buck on another part of the farm. Joe climbs down and moves to another stand in the direction the buck is traveling. With out the camera Joe would not have known the buck was in that area or travel direction THAT DAY. He took advantage of the electronic device.

Same as Alaska's rule on not flying and hunting the same day. Several States have rules onelectronic communications and locating game by motor vehicles. What whizzes people off it seems are orginizations that set "ethics"......

So based on your example, would you feel it would be unethical for "joe" to receive a pic from another camera on his farm and use that data to intercept and kill that deer the same day, regardless of whether he could/would want to enter the deer in P&Y or only if it's against the organization's rules?

Personally, I think they (cameras) can provide an unfair advantage to hunters when used during the season. I feel this is especially true of the newer cameras that notify hunters in real time. As in your example, it could help hunters kill deer they likely otherwise wouldn't have seen that day.

To answer your question jjas, "IF" I receive that photo on my phone or to another electronic device(IPad, computer, Laptop) and move to that location or travel direction in "real time" then I have been "assisted" by an electronic device.

If I go pull a card at lunch and then hunt that afternoon, I was not hunting in "real time".

The real question is............ why to you give a "rats azz" about P&Y rules when you don't like them anyway? Could it be their stance on crossbows?

ROFL!, gotta love the off season.lol

Yep...

Do you feel it's unethical??

To answer your question jbwhttail, while I personally don't care about having a deer listed in the P&Y record book, some on this forum do and that's why I inquired directly to P&Y concerning game cameras.


And...just like compound bows, 80% let off and now....lighted nocks, P&Y eventually bows to hunter pressure and goes mainstream. And @ some point that likely will include crossbows.

Unethical? No...just because I'm not a fan of something doesn't make it unethical in my eyes. But as I stated earlier, I think they (cameras) can provide an unfair advantage to hunters when used during the season. I feel this is especially true of the newer cameras that notify hunters in real time.

I can't imagine crossbows being allowed ever IMO

Dawn Patrol I can guarantee you that the same thing was said about compounds many years ago...and while I don't think it's likely to happen tomorrow, as crossbows are allowed into the archery seasons in more states, I think eventually it will occur.

I'll just go with my tag line on this thread

I agree with the real time scenario example here, hunter hunting on the same farm at the same time the pictures are being sent, and the real advantage that it plays. I think the gray area, although not from a regulation standpoint, is the other example of a guy pulling a card at noon and hunting that are immediately because of a picture earlier that morning. But, at the end of the day, so to say, it really doesn't matter because it's hunting and the record book programs can do whatever they like.

If I receive a sales ad from Krogers, telling me that turkey breasts are on sale...is it unethical for me to go buy some?? :rolleyes:

Yes weed you are unethical! :p

Only if they had a fair chance to escape before they were packaged.

Think I'll just sitback and watch this porter ridge thread..

Darn!!! im outa popcorn....

The compound bow analogy is old, worn out..and basically a farse. How can one compare a weapon that was patented and accepted as archery equipment on a national scale within a very short window....to a weapon that has been around since medieval times and still fighting for an identity?

Even some crossbow liberal states still do NOT recognize crossbows as archery equipment. We live in one. Nobody is legally hunting deer in Indiana using a crossbow on an archery license.

As for P&Y, while I've learned to never say never, crossbow inclusion is highly unlikely. I posted the criteria necessary to become a voting member in P&Y earlier in this thread. One must demostrate quite a comittment to BOWHUNTING before ever being considered as a voting member. Prevents the Johnny-come-latelys from moving in and taking over.

Let's face it, the driving force behind crossbow liberalization is MONEY. The P&Y Club has a trust fund that will keep the club financially viable for several decades...if not longer.

Like I said, never say never...but if crossbows inclusion ever does happen at P&Y...I have strong doubts anyone on this message board will still be breathing.

pav And that's my point.......

In 2012/13 in Ohio, there were 35,000 bucks killed with bows. Of those 35,000 bucks, 20,000 (or nearly 60%) were killed with crossbows.

And if you don't think that as more states allow crossbows to be used in the archery seasons and those type of numbers continue to rise throughout the country that pressure for inclusion of some of these bucks will build on the P&Y club....well, let's just say...we'll have to agree to disagree.

Ultimately, what I think will likely happen is (@ the very least) P&Y will add a crossbow section to the records. It would appease the vertical bow hunter and recognize the crossbow hunter.

For in the end.....hunter attitudes change, equipment changes and clubs and organizations who hope to remain viable must change too.

Well, coming from a long term active member of P&Y....I think you greatly underestimate the resolve of the Club.

(i.e. don't hold your breath)

I'm hardly holding my breath over any of this, and I certainly realize that P&Y is slow to change. But...having said that, I still think we'll see that as time passes, and the membership "turns over" (and newer members embrace other equipment choices), things that appear to have been written in stone will become less of a big deal to others and thus....change will occur.

But as in many things, time will tell....

Have a good day.

Heck, someone should start up a national crossbow record book program. It'd be a good way for someone to make some money.

When 60% of archery killed bucks (and rising) in our neighboring state of Ohio are being killed with crossbows, P/Y and other clubs are going to have to recognize these deer at some point or risk rendering their organizations outdated and obsolete.

Crossbows are great hunting tools and are obviously here to stay.

As in the price of the bow?

A top of the line ready to hunt Excalibur or Ten Point crossbow can be found for less than a BARE Matthews or Bowtech bow.

This is before you add a couple hundred dollars of accessories and arrows and you are ready with your compound bow.

Who cares if the club is financially viable for decades if 60% of archery deer killed deer are deemed 'ineligible' for entry?

Is it enough to be a financially stable organization if your club rules are outdated and irrelevant in most bow hunters eyes?

Or what SHOULD happen is... just as the "Archery Nation" has their P&Y club........the "Crossbow Nation" needs their own "X&Y club" for their records. And have their own "Record Book". But that might take too much work as it may be "easier" to piggy back into P&Y's hard work for decades for the archer.....and just have them admit "crossbows are archery". LOL!!!

"Nobody wants/or should care to be in the P&Y record books"......but I'll be dang, they better care to include the crossbow weapon I use in that P&Y record book!!!...

LMAO!!!!

I believe there is a crossbow group and record book

And as far as P&Y goes....I understand their current position and as I've said before when we were discussing the use of "real time" game cameras.....their club, their rules.

But as far as the what the future may/may not hold, time will tell.

A little off the topic but here goes.........

P&Y,B&C,QDMA,NWTF,IDHA,HRB,IBA,RMEF,DU,ALL of these groups are full of "elitests"! We don't force anyone to join, we only ask that they meet our standards and rules. If you can't do that then don't join but also don't bad mouth what we do.

What ALL of these groups do is funnel the money received back into conservation projects that all of us use. Here is a good example..........

Several years back IDNR had the opportunity to purchase 2600 acres in Southeastern Indiana for a F&W area. they had the funding but not the money for the required survey, the IDHA, IBA and Indiana chapter of NWTF combined, payed for the survey. The property today known as Splinter Ridge was obtained, without our dollars the deal would not have been possible. P&Y,QDMA,RMEF,B&C wprk on a much broader scale, DU is matching every dollar spent on the Wabash and Muscatatuk corrider with $4.00!

So think about who you critize and what they are doing for you behind the scenes!

Well said Joe. But, the next time we are together working at the State Fair Cookout, or the Outdoor Experience at Fort Ben and so forth, make sure you point out the "elitists" in the club to me because there ain't no way these guys are elitists! Since we are off the topic, if anyone visits the education center at Muscatatuk make sure you look at the bricks in the entrance to the building recognizing the various clubs and people who donated to help build the building. Just sayin!

First, my "money" comment had absolutely nothing to do with the comparative price of hunting equipment. It had to do with the driving force behind crossbow liberalization...manufacturers and game agencies looking for a new revenue source.

Second, crossbows are not archery. Crossbow hunters are not archers. You can't even hunt in Indiana with a crossbow on an archery license. There are a lot more bucks killed with firearms and ML than archery equipment.. and P&Y does not allow those either.

The Pope & Young club was formed to improve the image of bow hunting, not crossbow hunting. I'm all for the use of crossbows during archery season, but in reality they are two different type of weapons, and always will be in the eyes of the P&Y club. I think with the popularity of hunting with a crossbow increases you will see some type of an organization formed for game taken with crossbows.

Those that crave to see their name in a record book, there's always the Boone & Crockett club. You will have to set your standards a little higher . They allow any animal killed with any legal weapon if it meets the required standards.

heres to hoping P&Y sticks to their guns on the laughable xbox hunters. if you're not a kid, disabled or elderly you have no business using an xbox during achery..use it during gun, which is still during the peak of the rut ha. ohhh Indiana..when will u ever learn

you're right 76..xbows are great weapons..for kids, disabled, elderly and morons/lazy dbags

Time to accept reality and move on guys, the crossbow issue is settled in Indiana.

i'll decide when its time to "let go and move on", thank you. at least you like chevys.

Wow.... Comments like this are reasons why hunters will NEVER be united as a group...

Like Gundude said earlier: How about just go hunting!....

What weapon one choses to use is NOBODY'S business but the hunter using it...

Hunters should be hunting for the sport and for conservation efforts... Not for record books, period!!! :rolleyes:

+1. This issue was decided 3 years ago.

The issue is not about choosing the legal weapon. The issue is about re-writing the rules so one doesn't have to use the legal weapon. This time it was crossbows. Muzzleloaders will be next to come knocking. The saga continues...

IMO, the problem is... we have alot more people hunting deer than deer hunters.