I am reading some of the comments and people are posting stuff without reading the article.

this just out cdc...tss


Sunday, March 30, 2014


*** Chronic Wasting Disease Agents in Nonhuman Primates ***


http://chronic-wasting-disease.blogspot.com/2014/03/chronic-wasting-disease-agents-in.html


THE LANCET Infectious Diseases Vol 3 August 2003

Tracking spongiform encephalopathies in North America

http://download.thelancet.com/pdfs/journals/laninf/PIIS1473309903007151.pdf?id=baa1CkXPkhI3Ih_Vlh6ru

Singeltary submission ;

Program Standards: Chronic Wasting Disease Herd Certification Program and Interstate Movement of Farmed or Captive Deer, Elk, and Moose

*** DOCUMENT ID: APHIS-2006-0118-0411

http://www.regulations.gov/#!documentDetail;D=APHIS-2006-0118-0411

Friday, December 14, 2012

DEFRA U.K. What is the risk of Chronic Wasting Disease CWD being introduced into Great Britain? A Qualitative Risk Assessment October 2012

http://www.defra.gov.uk/animal-diseases/files/qra_chronic-wasting-disease-121029.pdf

Saturday, March 29, 2014

Game Farm, CWD Concerns Rise at Boone and Crockett Club

http://chronic-wasting-disease.blogspot.com/2014/03/game-farm-cwd-concerns-rise-at-boone.html

Saturday, June 29, 2013

*** PENNSYLVANIA CAPTIVE CWD INDEX HERD MATE YELLOW *47 STILL RUNNING LOOSE IN INDIANA, YELLOW NUMBER 2 STILL MISSING,
AND OTHERS ON THE RUN STILL IN LOUISIANA ***

http://chronic-wasting-disease.blogspot.com/2013/06/pennsylvania-captive-cwd-index-herd.html

Sunday, January 06, 2013

USDA TO PGC ONCE CAPTIVES ESCAPE

*** "it‘s no longer its business.”

http://chronic-wasting-disease.blogspot.com/2013/01/usda-to-pgc-once-captives-escape-its-no.html

Wednesday, September 04, 2013

*** cwd - cervid captive livestock escapes, loose and on the run in the wild

http://chronic-wasting-disease.blogspot.com/2013/09/cwd-cervid-captive-livestock-escapes.html

kind regards, terry

Someone posted the links on trapperman.com

575 views so far

This is a national (few international also) audience...

This!

I cant believe the ignorance of some on some of the hunting sites.... they are defending these friggin' places....talking about having their heads buried where the sun dont shine.....sheesh....

Boone and Crockett Club now on board.....

http://us6.campaign-archive1.com/?u=e5cb9b2a091361e668572323e&id=8b39fafb3a&e=f07d6a3d45

Capitalism.

Most on here pull that lever every November in order to protect it. It makes me want to puke... what these guys are doing... But it's no worse than Mitt Romney making millions every year and being paid in "stock options" so it's considered "capital gains" instead of income, therefore avoiding TONS of taxes.
A lot of people say "quit complaining and take advantage of it yourself!" Yep... same could be said for Russ Bellar.


Our love affair with antlers is leading right towards the end of hunting as we knew it.
Better buy up some land NOW... Or be left out. If you own your own land you'll be able to hunt as we always have.

The Indy Star expose just might start to turn the tide. The General public is becoming engaged. Once the article was picked up by the USA Today, my phone has rang constantly, from Florida to Montana! And my name appeared no where in the article...... I can only imagine the calls received by Doug Allman who represented the IDHA.

Thanks to Ryan who started with an open mind on teh subject, facts won out.

And thanks to the Indy Star for having the foresight and courage to make the captive deer breeding and killing front page news!

As Delaney has said many times we need to get the "soccer moms" engaged..........now they are.

Not to get off subject but it is NOT Mitt Romney's or Warren Buffet's or any other person out there who owns stocks (including myself)...

The blame lies squarely on the feet of Congress who allowed this.... They are the ones who made the rules, not them not you and not me...

Ok back to deer....

HS Strut:

Society as a whole decides what is acceptable.Capitalism is great concept but.... What if it is a landfill next to your home? A tire dump? Or let's say a large hog operation, dumping waste into the envioroment? If your water source is contaminated by any of the above what recourse is acceptable?

Same as penned deer, we know that the transport of these deer have spread CWD. We can look at many instances and see that the epicenter of these outbreaks is a penned deer facility, be it a breeding facility or a killing pen.

Lastly:

The high fence deer pen people and the breeders want to be governed by Department of Ag not DNR's. Ag deprtments have strict rules as does DNR for the humane killing. These operators want ag rules up until it is time to slaughter these tame deer, then they want them treated as wildlife.....you can't have both. If they are Ag critters then they get a bang stick to dispatch, if they are governed by DNR then they are huntable. Ag Department means the operator owns the deer, DNR rules make them owned by the people and managed by the state.

Bryan78,
Who elects congress?

Jb, I agree with you. If they're hurting the rest of the herd they should pay restitution. I believe they should be shut down if they don't run a clean operation. I agree that they're dirtbags. I just choose to lump them in with the rest. As you always say "money talks". It will here too. I HATE IT.

I just wish we as "hunters" seperated ourselves a little more from those who run these operations and those who are purchasing the hunts.

Nice post Joe. These operators are simply folks with a mission to make money, no different from any other business. They want it be their way, no different then most businesses. I'm not really sure that makes them "good" or "bad" because the devil is always in the detail. But certainly, society will decide the future of these operations, not just hunters and not just high fence operators. In many regards it will become an animal welfare issue as much as a hunting issue. But what is funny to me is that generally speaking, people who use these facilities are petty quiet, especially those with the big money and the big corporate titles. I don't have a lot of respect for corporate America and I've been in it for most of my professional career. I don't have any ill will towards the operators as long as they are honest and forthright which we all know sometimes happens and sometimes doesn't happen. But hey, that's no different then many, many situations in the business world. Personally, I thought there was a lot of honesty in the comments made by the operators in Ryans report.

All I have to say is be careful what you wish for!
I am a hunter, my son is a hunter, my father and my grandfather. I don't post here much but read and visit almost daily.
I read all these posts against other "hunters". Whether we like it or not, people who go to preserves are "hunters". Over 50% of the people in this country are anti-hunting. United we stand and divided we fall. When you alienate the rest of the so called hunters,then our numbers as hunters get even smaller. Can we withstand a charge from PETA/HSUS or whoever when they destroy deer farming then come after us? As long as animals are not being abused and regulations are followed, if someone wants to hunt in a pen then let them, that doesn't mean I have to.
It doesn't matter if we agree with hunting in a preserve or not. We are destroying ourselves by supporting this "anti-hunting" expose. Not to mention that he says our wild deer are infected with disease from the penned deer. Now we are going to have people that will not hunt because of that.
Plain and simple the research facilities in Colorado and Wyoming were responsible for initially spreading CWD from their research pens. Whether we like it or not CWD is here to stay regardless of how it got here. I'm sure if they looked hard enough it is here too.

There is a difference in these guys wanting to make money lake any one else. the difference is and I will use myself as an example I could not with a clear conscience put the entire herd of deer in Indiana at Risk so I could Make a dollar Thats the difference.. Some things are well, JUST NOT RIGHT and this is one of those things

Yes we the people do but Mitt Romney had nothing to do with that law being passed so don't blame someone who had nothing to do with it...

Also when Romney was running for President he released his tax returns for that year and ironically he could have wrote off more but chose not too...

But like I stated earlier, I don't want to get this thread off topic with something that has nothing to do with the topic at hand which is way more important then someone's taxes....

I think the issue is that a lot of non hunters aren't opposed to hunting if it is done from what they idealize as a traditional sense. But, be there little mistake that many of the non hunting, but not anti hunting, folks very much embrace an idealism of fairness and in general animal welfare. What hunters have to decide is where that line in the sand is and recognize that if they don't side with the non hunters who aren't anti hunting, they will push those people towards the anti hunting crowd. I have never believed in the "we need to all stick together" idealism because I do believe there is a line in the sand on many hunting issues that just shouldn't be. But, that's my personal view and I certainly understand the anxiety others have when they see hunters being split.

After reading some of the accepting or apathetic (live and let live types) comments on this and other sites, I can only come to one conclusion.

The long term future of fair chase hunting is in some real trouble.

What would Theodore Roosevelt say today?

What would Aldo Leopold say today?

I am afraid to say that too many hunters only want to put a big buck on the wall and have no idea who these men are, what they believed in, or the influence they had on hunting and conservation.

76, welcome to the harsh reality of the situation.

Now that this has a spotlight on it, hunting will survive this....but as i'm currently taking some classes with the dnr, it worries me that it won't survive all the anti's in the dnr, recruiting more and more each day....it's only a matter of time....

No matter what is said...it isnt hunting ..... this report wast done with a anti-hunting agenda ..... animals NOT being abused ?? I guess Dominator never saw the Houston/Bellars Place video, where the great Jimmy Houston killed a drugged deer that had to be held up so he could kill it and claim it as a "free range" Whitetail..."Hunting the elusive Indiana whitetail", yea right .... Indiana high fence deer killing at its finest I guess....they all can KMA !

Jeff.
Why do people have to be so personal here? We are all Hunters here, but everyone had different opinions that's what makes this world go around. And yes i have seen that video more times than i ever care to. When i said abuse that's what i meant. If someone wants to hunt in a preserve to each his own as long as rules and regulations are followed. There are bad people that hunt the wild. Its not for me but i suppose it has its place in todays society. All I'm saying is i think those people that didn't have opinions about hunting do now whether its in a preserve or in the wild. And its likely not good for either.
I know a couple farmers and they are regulated out the wazoo to be able to move them out of state, what regulatios do our wild deer have? There are fences up at the borders! If they are sick they can spread disease for miles. We should be worried about ehd not cwd. Far more deer(thousands upon thousands) have died from it way more than cwd. Movement of Cattle from the south is the source spreading it .this one of the main reasons why many of us are struggling to find deer the last few years.

The issue is that science is more concerned about CWD jumping to humans then EHD. It's not just about deer, but people also. It's also about a threshold that society accepts or rejects. And, while you suggest they are regulated heavily they don't want that regisktion which is another huge issue.

I know that this article has allowed me to engage in good conversation with a variety of non-hunters. Any time we can explain our hunting views to reasonable voters, we win. It is a good series with many fine openings for good conversation. Use it like that.

Sure the kill videos and many of the disgusting horn porn images are disagreeable to those same non-hunters. But that is an opportunity to agree with them from an ethical hunter view.

Ahh .. a bingo!

Yes if you are a true hunter ethics should matter!

I get personal because it gets to me deep down inside...I love the outdoors, grew up loving it. I put a lot of work into what I do, hunting free range deer, I invest time, money and myself into deer hunting and to see a high fence operation prostitute the Whitetail deer sickens me. IT ISNT HUNTING, what part of this do some guys not understand ??...I dont get it.....These high fence operations put ALL ethical and morality believing deer hunters in a very bad light to non-hunters and it is THEY who will have the final word hunting, we lose them and we are done....

To some I guess its just the thrill of the kill..
Education to the upcoming generation would be a good start.

a few points ..........

Anti hunting community makes up 7% of the US population, hunting community is 7% also. Who we need on our side is the 84% that are non hunting, the Indy Star article does a fine job influencing that decision.

If you read any of the side bars to the story(court testimony) you would see these were/are not hunts at all, drugs,bait 2 acre pens, and deer run down a chute to the hunter immeadiately after being shoved out of a trailer.
Deer farmers talk of stress being the deers worst enemy, let's dart deer on staged archery hunts, no stress there. Let's gas bucks so semen can be extracted by electrocution, no stress there. Let's drug and transport a buck to an area he has never seen and release him, again no stress there. Humane/ Where is humane treatment of an animal in any of this?

Amen.......now where getting to the BOLD FACTS!!!

you want to see the real problem these are sportsmen and I use that term loosely and what some of them think BTW because I thought Catfish Needed Regulated on the Ohio I was Banned on this site
http://www.trapperman.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4406336/Buck_Fever:_deer_farming_and_h#Post4406336

"The issue is that science is more concerned about CWD jumping to humans then EHD. It's not just about deer, but people also. It's also about a threshold that society accepts or rejects. And, while you suggest they are regulated heavily they don't want that regisktion which is another huge issue."
with my medical background I think you have a better chance of the ehd virus mutating than a prion jumping to humnans. Not to say it couldn't but viruses mutate constantly. If we want to blame the spread of CWD on someone we need to blame the government because that's where it started.
I have a friend(that is a hunter) that is telling me that he has people coming up to him constantly at work, after this expose, and asking him if all the wild deer are diseased.

Blaming the government or anyone specifically for where CWD originated is a bit irrelevant to the issue or discussion. The point now is how to try to control CWD and lessen it's ability to spread and affect the wild herd. There in brings the issue of fenced preserves into play.

You are in the industry so your position is motivated by money. It is disingenuous to put forth the argument that we all need to stand to together as sportsmen, whose motivation is to protect the resource and the tradition of hunting, when yours is tied to you pocketbook. I'm curious, since you are for shooting domesticated farmed wildlife for vanity purposes,
does the same logic apply to horses. Is it OK to hunt them too in an enclosure? Would you stand with those that would want to do that. If you really care about hunting you would stand together with the ethical sportsmen who oppose this.

I am a person that respects what other people wish to do as long as its done by the rules and regulations. I read these forums daily and see the arguments on here with other forum members about how the wild should be hunted. LOL sometimes very entertaining. And, I totally respect those who traditionally hunt and I respect those that don't have the time or the resources that go to preserves.
I don't get on here and bash people when they shoot fawns and post pictures. Is this ethical???? I don't care if its a kid shooting or not, parents should teach their kids to respect nature and at least let them live some life. Or, people that wild hog hunt under a feeder. Ethical???? Or people that shoot does that have babies in their belly. Ethical??? maybe to me its not but there is not a law against it. Do I agree with people that grow non-typical deer that cant hold their heads up? He11 no. I am a steward of the animal.
My point is there are things that we all don't agree with but this IS AMERICA and as long as it is done by the letter it is to each his own. And it is our right as americans to have our own opinions and do with our property as we wish as long as it is by the law.


My view is we must look at the big picture not as our own little world. I'm not going to go on a crusade about killing bambi because that is not good for hunting and I personally feel this article is not good for hunting in general either, especially coming from a so called hunter.
Hunting is a privilege as is being able to farm deer. Just as it is in having a drivers license. It is not a "right".

As far as the horses, it would be better than them starving to death as they do in this country, nobody is held accountable for it and some that own them are too ignorant to know any different. without licensing owners, it is their right to own them not a privilege.

In my eyes the article is not much different than the PETA one about horse racing and Steve Assmussen that aired a couple weeks ago. Not all trainers are that way. There are bad people in any industry. Most people care about their animals or they would not have them.

Isnt this some of the same reasoning the fish farmers used when they imported the Asian carp?

Usually after an accident or mishap that involves millions to correct those responsible close up, file bankruptcy, then move and let the tax payers clean up the mess. h.h.

Looking at the Big picture is exactly why we dont need canned killing. if we had the foresight on the asian carp to keep them out of private ponds we wouldn't have the problem we have now .. The deer farms are just another carp thing in my eyes dont wait till there is a huge problem stop it NOW

Great article and chock full of the painful truth.

True sportsmen will never look the other way on the issue of cervid shooting pens. Just one of those things that's easy to recognize as ugly and wrong by anyone witnessing it, regardless whether they hunt or not.

Nope, no big tent for me, if the commercial killing pen operators are under it.

.

Dominator;

With wild deer, we don't geneticly engineer them. With wild deer there is not a price put on their head by inch of antler. wild deer are not line bred.

Lastly, wild deer can escape the fence!

Two bingos in 24 hours? Can't believe it..lol

Genetic engineering-the development and application of scientific methods, procedures, and technologies that permit ***direct manipulation*** of genetic material in order to alter the hereditary traits of a cell, organism, or population.
I have never heard of someone manipulating DNA for antler traits.
Yes people selectively breed for antler traits like mass, tine length, look, width. What farmer doesn't breed for phenotypical traits? Not everyone breeds for total inches or they would all be Frankendeer(not my kind of animal).They are going to grow bigger antlers when they are farm raised because they are not parasitized, are vaccinated, treated for sickness and they eat better than any wild deer has the ability to. In the very near future there will be a live test for CWD and a vaccine.

Since you used the word farmer, then I suppose you believe the livestock, deer, should be slaughted via the same type of rules that exist today for cattle, hogs and such