That is why I despise developers .... :0(

All contracts we sign have the "right to prosecute trespassing" passed on to us in the lease. We also specify exact address, townships, county and acreage of the lease. Landowner signs off that the prosecution of trespassing is now up to us.

Pretty simple............and it has worked when we needed it too.........both in Ohio and Indiana.

The landowners also love it!! Sometimes it was a way to GET a lease. The landowner had problems.....we knew about it........took the responsibility of him being the "bad guy" off his shoulders. They love having that off their back. The worst situations are friends and family for these landowners.....and LOVE IT that they are "out of the middle" of all the crap it can cause.

A lot of leasing companies DO NOT want to get involved in the prosecution of trespassing.....it is still the landowners responsibility. Has made it easy to sway landowners towards us as we are willing, ready and prepared to roll up our sleeves on these clowns.

I also make sure all county CO's know of our leases BEFORE the season starts. They know how we operate in Indiana and Ohio. Good relationships with the Officers that will be doing your paperwork is a good thing. We have prosecuted with fines 100% of the people we have caught and had paperwork submitted for prosecution.........including mushroom hunters.

I will say also.........the most idiotic things I have seen is during mushroom season.....not deer season. Best way to patrol your properties during mushroom season is to have you dropped off at your property before sunrise.........no vehicles to be seen off the road. Have cell phone with picture/video mode ready to go. It gets hilarious. I have been surprised over the years that most of the mushroom hunters we have caught were ALSO dropped off........and do not park along side the road. Their spouse or buddies help the trespassers out often....just by being available to pick them back up at the "drop zone" with a quick cell phone call.

They are so "clever" they think...........until they bump into "Wicked Smart".

This is why I've switched to cameras that send photos immediately to my cell.

Jeff, it's most farmers, not developers that I've been seeing.

thank you

I swore I wasn't coming back here... Here I am. Got bored.
Well lots of good points made here. Including guys looking down the road a few years, which is why I've been against leasing.

Guys, right now in Indiana, it's basically "regular" folks that you are competing with, therefore establishing the "price/market".

But it won't be long, and you'll be bidding against corporations. You know the ones who buy all the tickets and suites at pro sporting events? I mean, seriously, you don't think those people sitting in $500 seats are actually punching a clock or working for the man do you?
They buy these tickets with corporate money and give them away to people they want to do business with or want to continue to do business with. It also gets placed somewhere in the budget so it benefits them at tax time as well.

Well, these guys are smart enough to buy land or even better yet, since it's such a win-win deal... just lease it from the landowner. My biggest complaint has always been that landowners don't give a rats behind who, what uses their land... pay them and it's yours! Why not "sell hunts

How long till these guys selling 3 day hunts for $3500 start leasing the vary land the regular guys are leasing? Then sell the 3 day hunts? I believe there are tons of people out there with BIG MONEY that just want a deer every year to brag to their buddies about, but don't have nearly enough time to devote to food plots and trail cams etc...
Lets be realistic, most of us are always trying to find a way to fit more into less time.

This will come. I don't want to contribute to the madness. It's been said many times and it's true: Leasing is coming... It can't be stopped.
But I also believe it is counterproductive to the cause... to what hunting was when I was raised doing it. It was about fellowship, woodsmanship, mother nature, and by golly if someone was blessed enough that a big buck walked in front of the place they scouted and prepared for, then it was a big day. Not now. If you don't kill a 150" deer your season is forgettable.

Question on ethics:

If you were in a contest to see who could kill the biggest buck and you had a choice between a "several baitpile's" or sevearl trail camera's... which one would you use? which one gives the biggest advantage?
I would say trail cams. I've never owned one, but the concept is hardly fair chase in my opinion.

Welcome back. Certainly agree with what you've said. Your question on ethics is a good one. I think we've enter into, and maybe it was that way always, the era when ethics is what's in each person mind. Frankly, I like the purist idealism. I do think all the technology and baiting and such takes away from the fundamentals of woodsmanship and the "one on one" of man against deer. But its not just about deer. You see it in fishing also.

Many years ago, probably 15, a major corporation offered me a Texas deer hunt for free. I was negotiating a contract with them on behalf of a local major health system. They had a "spot" open on the hunt that included numerous physicians from across the country. They gave me pictures of the big bucks taken from the place to be hunted. I called the place and to buy a hunt the cost was just a little over $5,000 for five days. I went to the compliance office where I worked and told them of the situation and we immediately severed negotiations with the company that offered me the hunt, "with no ties" to the outcome of the negotiations. My point is, we've been there for a while and we will see more and more of this in the future.

Good post HS. Corporations already own and lease land in many states. It is often in huge blocks, leased and then subleased or turned into a hunting club.

If your pockets are deep enough, you can buy a big buck.

What you can't buy though is the satisfaction that comes with doing it your self. Nothing compares to a hard earned public land kill.

Using cameras dosnt spread disease, bait piles can.....'76, there is nothing wrong with a hard earned kill on private land either.....leasing land for ones own use has been hashed over here time and again.... when one talks of "public" land what land do you mean...Hoosier Nat., the state forests ? Fish and wildlife areas ?....I can tell you the F&W areas in the northern portion of this state get hammered and competition is heavy, not only by deer hunters, but every thing else that has a season on it in this state........maybe the guys around the Hoosier or the larger state forest lands can find a piece of heaven to themselves, it dosnt happen up here on the F&W areas and that is all we have up here.... there is nothing worse than scouting and finding what you think is a great location waaay back in, you back pack a stand in before daylight, get all set up, then as daylight comes, you find out there is another guy 100 yds from you or some bumpkin comes strolling past as you are watching deer by you.... Ive had it happen on the F&W areas more than a few times.....THAT is why a good piece of leased land is important to me...I have control over who is on it....

Nope, not a thing wrong with that. I have done with both ways, private ground and on some of the most pressured public land in Indiana.

Nothing compares to the satisfaction of a bow kill on a hard hunted FWA though.

Yep, it is tough on those locations.....been there done it.... I still like JP, even with its pressure and knot heads.....

Yep, it is tough on those locations.....been there done it.... I still like JP, even with its pressure and knot heads.....

Delaney you're right, this has existed for a while. And in this country people are free to do as they please with their money and time. I wouldn't want it any other way.
The biggest reason I hate to see people PUSHING. Leasing as a great thing is because it will lead to BIG MONEY taking it all over. Then the guys on here won't think it's so great. I've never been in favor of Indiana getting on the radar with the other big buck states and this is why. Big money will kill hunting as we know/knew it. They'll buy up large tracts if land and start selling hunts. Is probably inevitable but I would rather not be one who helped it.

Question #2:
Apparently it's ethical to lease land, put out trail cams that report to your phone/computer so you never even go in the woods to scout, bait the camera site so deer come to it, name each individual deer, ride an ATV in to the point where you've raked a quiet entry the last few yards to a pre hung stand and harvest a deer. But if you SELL this hunt... You're ruining the sport.
Food for thought

142 acres Dearborn Co. 3 miles from Aurora PM me

HS, there are so many aspects to the entire issue of "fair" and "ethical". Heck, with todays firearms weapons, especially during the heavy rut, a guy can arguably take a firearm, grab a lawn chair, forget the camo, and go sit in a field and shoot a deer. Now, I have bought a camera that sends pictures directly to my phone and computer. Will likely buy many more. It's as much to watch for trespassers as it is deer, but still, I'll get deer pictures as well. Do I think it's ethical, probably. Is it fair, probably not in the absolute sense of the idealism.

I view leasing as much as an access fee for recreation, similar to tickets to a sporting event or such. Certainly it will eventually change the aspect of hunting as we all know it. It will lead to the animal rights types folks having more influence. But, it is the future. Again, if you want to see a big operational approach to leasing large tracts of land, go to Facebook and follow a site for Snipe Outfitters in southwestern Kentucky.

I don't care if people is trail cams. I'm just bitter that a sport I grew up with ( practically cost me my marriage a few times) is going in this direction. I really love it. But I love a lot of things. I'm not interested in a 365 day pursuit of an animal. And yet after pondering a lease... You almost owe it to yourself to spend all year on it in order to justify the investment. Heck, I'm like you Delaney... I like fishing trips up north! A lot!
I just think I've lost touch with the rest in this sport.
I'm thinkin for the money of a lease... For me that money might bring me more enjoyment chasing Elk for a couple weeks. Or maybe a 5 day deer hunt somewhere I've never been. Heck, what's wrong with catching crappies in the fall, then deer hunting, then Ice fishing, ice out walleye, golf, back to fall and the crappies?

I just grew up with hunters being a tight knit group. Every time I hear prop I or prop IV or prop ANYTHING it makes me wanna scream!

DFA, your mailbox is full. Can you clear it out so I can send you a message. Thanks.

HS, I think there are probably a lot of guys that share your feelings.