Sooner of later deer management will have to revert to actual deer management instead of deer hunter management...or there won't be a need for either.

Dont mean to offend anyone, but Ive grown up a taxidermist son, as well as working at Dicks Sporting Goods and Gander Mtn. So ive spent my whole life listening to so called "hunters" deer and beer stories. Where a lot of people just sit w a case of beer on a ridge and kill big deer. Just dumb.

I'm not defending any style of hunting but keep in mind that some people just want to have some fun deer hunting. Gun hunting the rut is fun.

Most don't take this all that seriously. At least until it seems that special interests get preferential treatment and get gun seasons moved out of the rut so that bow hunters can get the only crack at rutting bucks. Then they get serious.

+
+1 I read some of this and wonder if it's even fun for some people or do some people just suffer from OCD.

yeah but when people brag about drinking while hunting it gets old. not talking hunt day drink at dark, im talking beer in one hand gun in other. Thats where I get offended.

For me personally, it isn't about getting the bucks to myself in bow season. I hate gun season because for me, the pressure that gets applied to the woods on opening weekend absolutely ruins the rut and ends the season for me. In over 25 years, I've only killed a couple deer after opening weekend. I could absolutely care less what weapon a hunter uses, **** use grenades if you want... but the absolute bombardment of orange into every nook and cranny of forest on that november day just screams NOCTURNAL

Of course the drinking while hunting is unacceptable. There are idiots everywhere but that's not what we are talking about here.

Having 6 weeks of bow season prior to the gun season sure tempers the disruption of gun season for me. I don't really see the pressure that a lot of folks talk about either. And I hunt public land for a lot of the gun season.

48% of the deer killed during gun season 2012 were killed after opening weekend. 42% of the antlered deer were killed after opening weekend. Approximately 60% of all deer killed with a gun in 2012 were killed after opening weekend of gun season.

So stay out there. A lot of success is based on confidence.

Bingo!!!!! Right through the up rights pav!
Look at what we did with the quail and grouse population.is our deer herd next.

I'll just stick with my tag line. .

It should offend every true hunter... When I'm hunting (being with a bow or gun) the last thing I want in the woods with me or near me is alcohol...

People who hunt while drinking alcohol give the sport a bad name and a black eye...

This debate should not be about moving gun season(which I support), if you want more deer YOU must be willing to cut gun seasons, ALL of THEM in half at least. You aren't going to get rid of the crossguns, they are in archery to stay. Look at Ohio and what crossbows have done to their gun seasons, worthless at best! The crossbow harvest replaced gun hunting.

It will be forgotten in History, but we had a better plan, the majority reigned as they should.

As I said for many years, "own or lease, or you get public land hunting", permission hunting has now become "public land" hunting.

Said I wasn't going to comment on any more forums...then SIX pages into this thread I read this crap! Ive barely refrained for commenting on some of the other BS ive read here but This quoted post is STUPID, ONESIDED, and probably A big ol' piece of bait that I just bit on but COME ON!!!! Any "moron" can say this. You sound like an anti hunter. Why did admin let a member of PETA on this forum???

Mk, please reconsider how you wish to comment on others posts. You opinions are certainly appreciated and good debate is welcomed. Name calling is not welcomed. Please continue to contribute but please do so respectfully of others opinions.

You guys that wanted 1.0 should be happy if crossbow inclusion leads to higher archery totals and lower gun totals. If higher archery totals (especially for antler less deer) occur, that helps to show that archery can be a management tool in Indiana, when in the past it was looked upon as "recreation".

Does that mean gun seasons will be shortened and/or moved? I don't know, but I do know that a more legitimate case could be made @ that time.

And that just wasn't the case a couple of years ago.

John, spoken like a true gentleman. You must have grit your teeth a few times reading some of the provocative posts on here. But, I am glad you did point out some obvious hypocrisy. Too many deer hunters who hunt with bows simply fail to realize (or will not admit it) how good they have it relative to the length and timing of archery season. Regardless of how good they have it, some seem to begrudge any time for other weapon types in the woods during “their" season, which now runs statewide from October 1 to the first Sunday in January of the following year. And, not only that, bow hunters can take their one buck any time during that 3-month long season.

And, there are too many deer hunters who hunt with firearms who belittle and call names those who enjoy hunting with bows, refusing to acknowledge that there is a place for all kinds of weapon types. Some refuse to acknowledge that skilled bow hunters can make clean, ethical shots within their personal and equipment limitations, and do it with as much confidence, humility, and respect for the deer as the firearm hunters.

I could go on, but that is enough for this post. I refuse to get sucked into personal attacks and endless arguments.

1st-i didn't call anyone a name! I quoted what the "guy" whom I quoted in my post. So you should "reconsider" addressing this comment to the guy that called gun hunters morons!
2nd-most of the "guys" on here don't want a debate. They want their way or the highway. Pretty much they're whiners who fancy them selves as "deer" experts.
3rd-I hope you or anyone of the other elitist hypocrites on here who might see me(I get around...draw hunts, park hunts, public/private ground, etc) come on up and tell this 6'5" 260lb fella how you think I should hunt! You can't miss me, I stand out. Plus my user name could help you connect the dots.
4th-since I'm on a rant, I guarantee someone on this sight wil blame EHD on the state/government Ive been waiting for it to pop up on a forum and would bet itd be this forum. Some of the people on here a conspiracy theorist thru and thru(or ignorant), self absorbed, and/or just plain old full of....

Can't wait till this coming season so I can plaster this forum with pictures of the does(possibly even button bucks! OH MY!!) I shoot just to piss y'all off. With my Lifetime license, and living right smack in the middle of the dreaded "8 limit" counties I hopefully can get a good stern lecture about how I'm doing it wrong! May have to borrow my grandfathers XBOW(yeah I said it! X-B-O-W)to kill a couple. And I will try spread the wealth, couple during the rut, maybe some dutig late antlerless season. Would be great if shot a shed buck then! AND I'm gonna "sit on a ridge and kill a booner during gun season) because any "moron" can do that right? Hey, I just used the "M" word, sorry if I offended anyone.

Moderators, how can you continue to let this "guy" post on here ?

Mk first off you have no clue who I am or how I hunt. I bow hunt, gun hunt and late season antler less hunt. Do I want gun season moved outta the rut no. It's purely a selfish reason bc my father is a taxidermist and his business would go even more to ****!! It's a fact during the rut all it takes is a hot doe to come thru and who knows what's gonna be behind it, therefore making it a **** of a lot easier to shoot a big buck. I don't give a flying poo how they structure out season or how other people hunt. And as far as you wanting to shoot bb or does if that's what you wanna shoot go ahead I could care less. Now comparing me to an anti will get you popped right in your mouth if you would like to meet up I live in greenwood indiana ill even pm you my address if you like to meet up. I'm not a keyboard warrior and take high offense to backhanded comments like that.

I think the current gripe jjas is the "free fall" 2.0 introduced...and we did not need to be that aggressive.

Now....with that being said.....you make a good point on the legitimacy of "archers" contributing to the deer management scheme.

Would have also been accomplished by blending 1.0 and 2.0 strengths.....which I believe we are headed to anyways. Sure would have been nice if both "camps" could have realized this from the start. May have been a lot less "angst" towards each other from the start .....during the process.....and in the end.

Unfortunately MK, probably most don't really want to debate and would prefer just to get their way, probably me included. I don't really think anyone wants to tell others how to hunt, but I do think there is a thought that the DNR is going to have to affect how someone or everyone hunts differently in the future vs how they do today. And certainly, being in the position of the DNR of having to supposedly try to make everyone happy is a no win situation. Lastly, since I am an idiot when it comes to the computer stuff, Hanes and Delaney are one in the same but one is from my cell and the other from my computer.

Per Dew: Would have also been accomplished by blending 1.0 and 2.0 strengths.....which I believe we are headed to anyways. Sure would have been nice if both "camps" could have realized this from the start. May have been a lot less "angst" towards each other from the start .....during the process.....and in the end."

Couldn't agree more.

How did we manage to get the big herd that the DNR now wants to reduce?????

Gunseason has always been close to the same length..... Of coarse there has been a new ANTLERLESS season added!!!

But now some folks that backed Prop #1, to supposedly reduce the herd, are back wanting those shortened and moved gun seasons again only this time to supposedly grow the herd.


BTW..... Not ONE time did/has anyone said until now that Prop#2 was gonna be to AGGRASIVE !!!!!!

Go ahead and shoot your 100 bucks And then wonder why your grand kids are only hunting deer on video games. I'm done w this forum.

The same way they let you spew your BS deer hunting/management theories. You took offense to my Xbow comment didn't ya? I tell ya what, you stick with telling your neighbors what deer to shoot and weapons to shoot them with.

Ahhh. The post season snowed in winter testosrone driven frustration of hunters...its the same every year... I'm going stay out of this one and go take my .22 rifle and try to track down a rabbit just like I did when I was a kid.
You all better enjoy life while you have it! It could be game over tomorrow!!

The argument here is out of control.. the one thing I will say is an email sent here and there won't change anything. I've been in sales alongggg time! Show up in person and you get things done!!

Hunt on!!! Be safe! Enjoy life!

Had 1.0 included crossbow usage for all, and left the gun and muzzleloader seasons to start when they always had, then I think people would have been a little more likely to think about going along with a 9 day gun and 9 day m/l season. The new bonus antlerless season would have still happened, but adjustments can easily be made to that.

But, sometimes when you push too hard...you get shoved back....And you're right...the process created hard feelings for many but more importantly it created a lack of trust between hunters.

As far as a "freefall" goes...Without data from several seasons we don't know if that's true or not. But, what I'm hearing from people isn't so much that season length and weapons choice is the problem as much as people think the bonus antler less season is unnecessary and the bonus doe quota permits are too high thus putting too much additional stress on the doe herd.

And to see where we are on that concern, we need to see the data from this season (and the next few) and compare that data to data from seasons past. We also need to see how the DNR reacts to the numbers and what they do with the bonus antler less permit numbers and thus the number of counties participating in the bonus antler less season.

Finally, we need to remember that the state grew the herd with the current gun and muzzle loader seasons. Now will crossbow inclusion help lead to an archery season that participates in management? And will those numbers be large enough that the DNR would recommend and hunters would be willing to accept shorter gun seasons?

I don't know as those questions can only be answered intelligently by accumulating data from the current regs running for a few seasons.

The data is piling up, as is the anecdotal evidence from those who spend time on their properties and in the woods/fields.... two simple changes would be drop the late season antlerless and cut back on the bonus tags in some places that are now 8 to 2 or even make them an "A" county and for up here it would be to reduce the "bonus zone" to actual towns/cities that need the extra pressure but once again if those locals have a no discharge regulation then it would be up to the residents to get that dropped....or you will end up with sharpshooters and the whole White Buffalo crap starting all over again....

I think I did mention I was down at JP on Wednesday sighting in the 22-250 and after talking to a person who shall remain nameless at their request said JP had one of their worst deer season ever....They have been allowing bonus tags on limited areas and the late season antlerless(1 bonus could be used then). The surrounding landowners are up in arms with the low deer numbers on their places. That "person" would like to see a drastic reduction in the bonus tags and have no late antlerless gun on the place.....and just as I was thinking about hunting it again for next season. Ive killed some really nice bucks off of there in past years....

I've been steering pretty clear of this thread, but just so folks know.... I'm ALL about "you don't have to kill every deer in the woods". I like 3 deer a season, but I've ate tag soup a number of years, cause I waited too long on a Buck.. That being said, I did NOT support a shorter Gun season, OR moving it out of the rut....nor will I ever! I hunt all 3 seasons with my M.L., but I do not Bow hunt. You can hunt deer with a Bow for 3 months, and with a Gun/M.L. only 4 weeks (now its 5). I'd say that's STILL a little lopp sided in favor of Bow hunters. Support ANY plan that furthers this favoritism?....I think Not.

8 bonus/ 2 bonus it's all relative... If you want to grow the herd in the area/county then you are going to have to reduce it to 1 to have an impact cause most kill maybe 2 but never 8 deer or at least I have never heard of it being done...

I would be all in favor of a three deer limit like reduction hunts do 1 buck and 2 does or 3 does whereas the buck and doe can be taking out of the same county but does have to be taking out of different counties so you spread out the harvest and it could have a positive economic impact in some communities...

That's too bad Trad cause I enjoy seeing the pics of your hunting success.... But I understand...