Here is something we should care about. Possible EHD breakout. We are working hard to confirm.

https://www.facebook.com/Indianadeerherdmanagement/posts/1041047119240303:0

https://www.facebook.com/Indianadeerherdmanagement/posts/1040662459278769

Deer farmers are reporting with pics, say BOAH BEING NOTIFIED. As we know the vector midge does not recognize fences or property lines. Gary

Way I understand it thereason EHD is so devastating is concentrating at water holes in dry ,drought like years .... water every where all over Indiana ..would be at problem At a deer farm concentration ,,, all the comments from Deer Farmers keep it there Madison Co. Got more rain than just about any where in the state They there not wild BUT can very well spread to wild deer there Lays the problem

Throbak, let us not make this another pissing contest. EHD is spread by a midge, and mostly transported by cattle. Those are facts. Droughts can be a catalyst; however so can pools of water left as flood and high waters recede. Which is happening at the exact time of year that we don't need it to.

This is not something to argue about and use for a political statement. We need to know the impact on the herds in the locals this outbreak may be happening. Emails and phone calls by IWDHM Group to DNR and BOAH to confirm. The midge knows no property lines and don't care about our politics, or if the deer is wild or private property. Hence the problem we are advocating. Outbreaks prior to deer season, but after bonus county permit quotas set. No system in place to react. The deer farms are at least giving us an indication that it is there, that may go unnoticed by hunters as season not in yet.

I would encourage anyone with any information about dead deer especially near water to contact IWDHM Group, BOAH, IDNR-DFW asap.

I think the EHD is an equal opportunity disease and certainly while deer concentration would increase its affect, I'm not sure the farming aspect would be a great factor. If so, we'd probably have heard that in the past. As with my post on the other thread, if it's mud along the waterways that the midges like, this could be a banner year for the EHD in some areas. As suggested though, at least in the wild herds, with the abundance of water, maybe the deer won't be as concentrated lessening some of the impact.

I just stated my opinion like everyone else thats all I am just sick of your Idea that the deer farms and canned hunting members on your page are the greatest thing since sliced bread Dont start it and it wont happen I read your post listed,,, ALL DEER FARMERS your in bed with the Devil IMO trying to justify their importance in the Deer World I am Not buying it never have never will Dont comment on this and its all I Have to Say

We are not in bed with the deer farmers. Said it multiple times, will not let you have the last word on misinformation. They reporting it, and it cannot be confined to just inside their fence, and we want others in the area to know, assess, walk their properties, especially waterways, and let us know the impact on the wild herd. Your rants out of hate does not make is so sir. We have no affiliation with the Deer Farms, but smart enough to use the information they are giving us to look how it may be effecting the wild herd. My goodness. See the forest for the trees man. You are giving it all away with this arguing.

I would love to meet all of you face to face and talk all this out for the resource. There are so many misconceptions being TYPED out there, that are just craziness to be frank. Do you realize that this is only 10% of the total communications resources we use as humans.

Anyway for now, can we just keep this to topic of EHD outbreak. Thanks.

Exactly.... +1.... Well said!!

Guys, is it possible to stick to the topic. I realize that many want to address other things, but each thread becomes the same stuff. Honestly, can we leave some of the other stuff behind and speak to topics that the thread is intended to be.

Dave I would suggest posting this information on IDHA Facebook page. No new posts since Deer Expo. Would love to see them join us just on this one. May be a start?

I called and left a message for the deer biologist. Hopefully she will call back.

Contacted several DNR BOAH AND OUR FOLLOWERS/MEMBERS. DNR HAS DONE NO TESTING TO DATE. LETS SEE WHAT BOAH COMES UP WITH ON NECROPSY. https://www.facebook.com/Indianadeerherdmanagement/posts/1041371572541191

Has there ever been a year when EHD hasn't had a effect on the deer herd???

EHD happens most every year on some level in Indiana.....

The State Fair is likely hindering a quick response but I'll keep following up. So much of the process of monitoring, reporting and assessing is clearly very difficult for the agency. I might be nice, and they may already have this, would be for the DNR to have a dedicated weblink to a site that gives explanation about EHD, and an update on areas that might be affected, simply so hunters and landowners have some additional information.

Be tough to get a season adjustment based on kills that have not happened yet....assuming that is what you're after.

I think there are cases of EHD every year....more in dry years than in wet. Time will tell how severe or slight this year is and the DNR will likely adjust next years quotas using that as a piece of their puzzle.

Doubt the State Fair has anything to do with it. All animals going to the State Fair HAVE to have a health certificate from a vet within a certain amount of time before being transported there. Which also means all animals have to be de-loused/de-wormed, and treated for biting insects. Which means they are NOT carrying the midges in, nor will the midges bite and carry off EHD once they are there. That is a fact.

Dave got response from DNR EARLIER. https://www.facebook.com/Indianadeerherdmanagement/posts/1041371572541191.

Also that is one of the reasons to illustrate this if a system was in place after an EHD occurrence we could adjust bag limits accordingly

no such system is in place now. Something we advocating as many pointed out EHD is here to stay and outbreaks in late summer after quotas announced. Need system to scale back in areas hit when needed.

Think dave saying most DNR personnel working fair. But if u click link see we got response earlier today .

Explain how you adjust bag limits after the hunting guide is published??? Good luck with that...

Your really have some confused then!!

Dave got response from DNR EARLIER. https://www.facebook.com/Indianadeerherdmanagement/posts/1041371572541191.

Also that is one of the reasons to illustrate this if a system was in place after an EHD occurrence we could adjust bag limits accordingly

no such system is in place now. Something we advocating as many pointed out EHD is here to stay and outbreaks in late summer after quotas announced. Need system to scale back in areas hit when needed.

Think dave saying most DNR personnel working fair. But if u click link see we got response earlier today .

EHD happens every year... Don't know why anybody would be "ALL MY GOD" about it...

Also the fact that deer farms would get hit harder is the fact that the deer have no where to go for other sources of water is no surprise either...

The state only tests and confirms a limited number each year so how would you propose adjustments be made based on those cases?

Also, wouldn't there be possibilities of cases so long as there are insects to transmit....well into September or October in every year?

Your point certainly is a good one and one that I'm sure the DNR would have to think long and hard about. That said though, if the DNR goes the route of cutting off trapping for otters or bobcats in the future once the harvest hits a certain level (maybe they won't do that), then some type of similar approach might be possible in other aspects of wildlife management including deer.

It would be nice to have some overview from science, not just a bunch of deer hunters speculation, as to how widespread within a geography (one mile, five miles, ten miles, etc) that EHD typically affects a deer herd and how science then can or cannot make any assessment as to the impact on the deer herd in whatever the general geography might be. Such as, 10%, 20%, 30% or whatever of the local herd within that geography is x% likely lost to the disease.

My point is, I think we all have some mild, maybe more, thought that EHD has been a significant factor in some or many localized deer herd declines in the last few years. Assuming that might be true, and knowing that the DNR doesn't typically like to react immediately to a situation like EHD because they pretty much believe the deer herd can and will successfully rebound in future years, does that mean that there isn't some reason to simply visit or revisit this issue in the future with the DNR. I'm not sure why everything isn't up for challenge periodically in regard to management style, management goals and so on. I get this issue of the regs being published and the difficulty of changing those regs once published, but why not? Do we really have to dumb down the process so much that situational impacts can't alter the regs within some notice period via the DNR website or such? I know it's not logical or maybe even practical, but why is it that we have to expect wildlife management to be as it's always been to a large degree? Honestly, I doubt that the average deer hunter would welcome any change to the regs once published, but I don't think that the average deer hunter really cares about the resource all that much anyhow.

As things stand now, I would agree. It would be confusing to make changes.

But...it would seem to me that in the future one thing could be done fairly easily.

With checkIN the data will be received and could be compiled much quicker than in years past. If the current season's harvest was higher (or lower) than anticipated in any particular county after the archery/firearm/muzzleloader seasons were over, it would be easy to add (or remove) a county from the late antlerless season.

If hunters were told this was how the late antlerless season was going to work, they could check the DNR website after the muzzleloader season to see if the late antlerless season would be available to them (or not), based on that season's county harvest data.

Would the DNR be interested in doing something like this?

I have no idea.....

Now there is a positive idea, JJAS, that all we asking for some dialog to bring this overharvest into moderation, thanks man.

Jjas exactly great idea and one I remember discussing with Craigslist Bierl when he served with IWDHM.

Be curious to know if the DNR wouldn't like that idea as to why? I see it as a no brainer.

I also would like to see the DNR let hinters know that if an EHD outbreak hits the DNR may emergency adjust some county's bonus antler less quotas at any point.

If season limits are changed after licenses are sold I assume the DNR would need to refund any monies from unfilled tags.....

I"m not entirely following your thought here. If the agency stated the rules and the fact that the rules and bag limits could change at any time, any purchaser would be fully aware of the possibility that the tags would not be able to be filled. As long as the purchaser understand the situation, I'm not really sure a refund would be needed.

Not true anymore unless you go out of state

How many cases would the state need to test and confirm before an adjustment in that county was made?

See this is great discussion. This is what I have been attempting to promote. Just awareness and ideas. Careful though s_wilk, you are putting the cart before the horse, wanting specifics and setting limits. This will be along slow progress with many players. The point is to start talking, get a voice (nothing matters without that), then engage all stakeholders to discuss how can we moderate the harvest to the best possible benefit of the resource and the citizens of Indiana. Conversation is starting, keep it up, don't get lost in he said she said, specifics, just converse positive ideas. Thanks for those that are, and attempting to. Just remember lets keep the horse in front, and we will get to the cart eventually, have to crawl before we can walk.

If the cases are on Deer farms I am not sure the DNR would have the authority to even test after ther recent court rulings!!!!

Gary - did you really just tell me to be careful? For discussing specifics of a proposed idea?

Really?

**** it .... I say we have world peace. The specifics of how we do that arent important but lets all agree that world peace is what we want.

Not sure anyone could get refunds, but it would have a factor on the selling of Deer tags....

Which was my point.

The state does not test and confirm many cases. There would be changes after a season has started and tags have been sold. Cases could continue to develop well into October or even November.

But who needs to discuss details .... and how in the **** do you have ideas without details and a well designed plan?

Back to topic: reports coming from Hamilton and Madison Counties currently. I posted statement from DNR several times yesterday.

Direct quote from DNR Chief in email yesterday, "I contacted most of our field supervisors this afternoon and we have not been receiving reports of EHD in wild deer. Our wildlife science supervisor advised that we have not collected, nor submitted, samples for EHD testing this year."

It is highly possible, they have not even heard about it yet, other than our reports. I was in conversation yesterday with two of the farmers that reported it. One posted the following on his site:

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#1 Bell
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Posted Today, 11:49 AM
Sadly again we are starting to lose deer again from the EHD virus in Indiana. A gentleman on another forum suggested that deer farmers should take the time to notify the Department of Fish & Wildlife if we are sustaining losses to the virus. I agree. Our deer herds are a "canary in the coal mine" for the virus in the wild herd. We have deer farms all over the state and we can provide important info. Bonus antlerless bag limits are determined by the DNR prior to EHD season. The herd could be devastated in a county by EHD and hunters over harvesting the animals that are left could decimated the herd to the point a rebound could take several years. Please take the time and report any losses to everyone who could be effected. All hunters will appreciate it! Thanks for your time and consideration.

So see with conversation, at least found a common goal to report, WHAT THEY DON'T HAVE TO for the knowledge to be out there that the wild herd may be at risk as well.

The other gentlemen, stated he would put together a video, showing the sick and dead deer w/ symptoms, and show how to remove the spleen to send for testing, and will send to have tested at his expense to confirm or deny. If it does turn out to be something else then the DNR will at least be aware. That is our hope and intent at IWDHM Group. Nothing can stop EHD, except deer building immunity; however, how we harvest after an outbreak, can conserve the herd sensibly.

You are correct Brew, the DNR would not have the authority. So wouldn't it be nice, if the Farms voluntarily reported it to the DNR, so they have knowledge it is out there. That is what I worked hours on yesterday.

Trying to bring people together to focus on a common goal, even though they may be miles apart everywhere else. IWDHM Group, herd first!!!

S-Wilk yes I did say be careful. You are already asking for specific numbers of EHD cases and how much to decrease doe permits. Heck man it just an idea a this point. Many Many Many stakeholders have to weigh in and come up with a collective plan of moderation. If you start putting out specific numbers and start MANDATING a stance on anything, you have lost, we have lost, the DEER HERD has lost. Complex world with millions of stakeholders. We have to be smart enough to kick around ideas for solution of a problem, and not get to specific at first, hence, cart before the horse. Really!!!!

Ideas promote discussion, and turn into well designed plans, only after all stake holders weigh in and find the Venn Diagram. That collective middle is where a solution lies. Have to get their first before we can even start to have a specific idea for a strategic plan. I am sure every business, school, family, would wish they would wake up one morning with a specific plan to accomplish all their goals. Just don't happen that way. Takes thought, work, more thought, and work work work. If we start out saying anything won't work before we even get there, then you are right it won't work.

For these naysayers, then what would be the point, nothing would ever work, and we should all just give up and stay in bed. IMO

Successful people, set the bar. It is never this won't work, it is how can we make this work!

On second thought ... Good luck Gary.