There are biological models the DNR can use on a big scale. Suggest you got to Southeastern Deer Study Group and research. Been doing them for years all over the world on many species.

They tend to be very accurate as well.

Assuming this was part of our conversation ... Im not trying to figure out how the DNR can find the number. Im trying to figure out the IWDHM plan to find the numbers so they can lobby for changes to the quotas.

FYI Dew, Three of the last 4 years Ive killed 2 bucks just under 150 and one over......pretty much a trend in my opinion.

I usually don't kill a buck until mid week of the gun season. By that time all the doe in the area have come to my property seeking refuge and the big bucks follow.


And you are right I don't care how my neighbors hunt or what they shoot......its flatly none of my business....h.h.

That is why biologist go to school for all those years to learn this stuff. But we only have 8 out of 22 for the whole state, so how can they get done. Who setting quota's now, and how are they determined? That is what we are advocating brother.

We are not lobbying for any specific numbers as yet. We are lobbying to get the biologist hired, let them do their job, and set accurate quotas for sound management. We are also advocating for deer advisory councils to help them.

You guys are missing the point, by a mile. You are talking specific areas, specific situation. Not the bigger picture of the whole state. What is on or off the table. Annually all is on the table. It is all a dynamic process.

Gary - would it be safe to say that there is no plan for IWDHM to find the numbers and is instead going to go with another method to determine what the quotas should be?

Nothing is static in nature. Heck it all changes why we sit around talking about it. Lets start acting before the fact with education instead of being reactionary, that includes attempting to dissect every sentence and argue this point or that point, in the big picture doesn't matter. We need to work on big picture first, and that is getting biologist hired and inventorying our herd, and manage accordingly.

My mistake. I thought that you were looking for lower quotas.

If your goal is get them to change, I wish you the best. I've talked to people @ the IDNR over the last few years, and was told they are satisfied with the methods they are using.

Absolutely not s_wilk, we are saying flat out we want those population numbers. It does appear in all honesty that too many are worried about what they are going to lose, instead of what we are going to gain for ourselves and future generations as conservationists.

yes S-Wilk, we do think in most areas with hunter access the quotas need lowered per grassroots deer hunter reports, but see you assumed that we just want to randomly lower them without science, and that is just not the case.

Point is JJAS we are not satisfied and they manage OUR resources. Citizens own the resources, and unless we speak out we will lose them, that I can guarantee you. How long would you have your house or your family if you just let someone else manage them for you without your overseeing that management and giving input. Think about it.

How in the world did some folks, including myself, get the impression you fellas wanted lower quotas and that you felt there were too many antlerless deer being killed each year during season and during the depredation process?

If all you are wanting is the DNR fully staffed and then to re-evaluate I agree with that 100%. That would be a great place to start ..... figure out where we are before determining where we want to be.

I support the IWDHA goal of getting the DNR to back off the does. I have even joined the group and asked my hunting friends and family to do so. That being said I think some of their leaders have some bad blood with some other groups including this one. They in my opinion should make their friends list on Facebook public as A way to connect hunters. They need to have a plan to keep these guys engaged after this goal is reached. We need a voice, but every group that I have ever joined loses steam. See quail unlimited as example A. I know have to drive 3 hours south to hunt the way I want to because DNR put my ground in the urban slaughter zone. I will stand with anyone who wants higher game numbers. I'm too young to rember the good old days on pheasant, quail, or grouse, but did hunt in the good old days for deer. I want to pass this to my kids.

You know fellows, we are just attempting to secure what we have for everyone and future generations. Some are so scared they will as an individual lose one little thing they cant see the forest for their one tree. We should all be on the same side on this one guys. We are wasting energy arguing here, that can be better spent.

Amen family tradition. I think if you like our page you can see all the friends list.

Cannot. Only the ones I'm already friends with.

Your opinion on what is arguing and my opinion on what is arguing seems to be very different. This seems like a very civil conversation to me .... and it has helped clear some stuff up.

Filling the open positions before doing anything else or lobbying for any changes is a great idea.

With herd reduction, high hunter density numbers, and revenue demands all factoring in, I don't see the DNR changing much of anything in the near future.

Regardless, while I think you guys are up against a brick wall, I wish you luck in your quest.

Everyone, just remember, I am just a working stiff like the rest of you. I will not always say every word correctly, or always be politically correct. I guess I just saying this back and forth on the details can be redundant, and really doesn't accomplish much in the bigger picture. Sometimes just saying we have to prioritize and do the best we can, and not attempt to fix every little thing at once. But for clarification we think the quota's need reduced now in certain areas and cannot or should not wait. Attempting to live life and work, and help others, and do the best I believe for the herd. I would suggest you all place this energy in going to meetings, hearings, sending letters and emails, and stop so much back and forth on emails, some discussion does at time become redundant. I am a RN and if a person comes in with a heart attack we are going to treat that, then worry about their hemorrhoids latter on down the road. Believe me they don't care about the specifics then. Not to feel sorry for me, I am doing it out of love, but I spend hours every day on this, going to a meeting with other conservationists tonight to talk about his, guys that DO.... Written to DNR, Governor, Legislators, just this month. Look at the positive you want and do the same guys, that all I saying.

JJAS, I agree it is hard, but isn't anything worth doing. We aren't deer hunters because it is easy. If I wanted easy I would get me an 80 inch screen TV and become a football fan. We do it because it is worth doing. thanks for your well wishes.

Now gosh darn it ... I just went and watched the video and it said you were going to start attacking the license structure and the amount of tags per hunter per year.

Im all kind of confused now .... are you going to wait until after the biologists positions are filled before asking for those changes?

Not sure?

While I was typing my above message you were posting this one ... so I didnt see it.

So you are going to ask for changes now. Not wait until the positions are filled.

What science are you going to base those requests on? You indicated earlier that you werent going to ask they be randomly lowered without science ....

Just a thought guys Gary Is saying that IWDHM Group is for the HEALTH AND WELL BEING OF THE WILD DEER HERD FIRST and to INSURE HUNTING FOR FUTURE GENERATIONS PERIOD. And if you don't Agree with that Mission Statement I FEEL SORRY for ALL OF YOU.

S-wilk, frankly I am tired, WE DO THINK THE ANTLERLESS DEER ARE BEING OVERHARVESTED AND WANT A REDUCTION IN QUOTA's, BUT WE WANT THAT BASED ON WHAT THE HERD IS DOING SCIENTIFICALLY. WE don't want the entire state managed like the state parks have been and that is what is going on in a nutshell. We what the biologists hired and we want them free to do their job, and I can guarantee you if they are honest would have the same goals as we do at IWDHMA>

Thanks Quincy

Grass roots deer hunters reports are part of science S-Wilk. My Goodness.

Gotta go to a meeting now guys and attempt to get something done for the herd, suggest you do the same in some fashion for yourselves and your decedents. S-Wilk I will ask one question if I may. Do you have an outfitting business, a deer management or land management business, no matter how big or how small. Would like the truth.

One more thing, lol. If we at the IWDHM Group, have it wrong, and the DNR is doing it all so correctly, how is it every national and regional publication and organization is talking about the severe downtrend in the herd across the Midwest and northeast and west, and how come almost all state DNR's are acting accordingly except Indiana? Just a thought to ponder.

Gary - No to all 3. Why do you ask? I always try and tell the truth....its just easier and I don't have to worry about backtracking nearly as often.

If the last question was to me as well I would ask where you got the idea I think the DNR is doing it all correctly? I have wondered the same 3 questions from above of our DNR for years and dont see how they, or anyone else, can try and establish desired quotas without them.

I am also always against any weapon changes. No crossbow. No rifles. No additional seasons.

I dont like those sort of changes Gary.

If you want to know anything else about me ... dont guess ... just ask. Ill be happy to tell ya.

I've read and only posted limited times here for a reason...Gary I like S_wilk had not realized the desire to find biologists FIRST and then re-evaluate...granted you then later stated that wasn't necessarily completely true....but I'd beg you to reconsider that though. Continue gathering all of your data and yes I concur grassroot surveys and such are measurements which are worth something, granted small but worth something!

However, if you took the stance and push for filling the biologist vacancies oh my word that is the best thing EVER!!! That is precisely what we need in this state...in my opinion at least.

I'd be curious to know what everyone would think should they say we are okay, in a bad state or a good state...

Gary don't tire of discussion, with every moment you take to actually respond it builds your credibility (whether you feel it needs to be done or not) and in turn that helps build the credibility of IWDHM (which IMHO needs it somewhat).

I too like many here wish you guys well and look forward to updates and further discussion here or anywhere else!


Also why the inquire though to swilk about whether he (no matter how small or large) is involved in any form of whitetail industry? You asked me the same thing at one time...find it odd and just like s_wilk am curious as to the reasoning for why that would matter? Ed Hunt runs an outdoor page/show/product sales place...and yet is part of IWDHM no?

HOLY COW! Its like we have another Dew here now. lol

Indiana is One of the FEW states in a Deer Reduction Mode...And FYI they have also been acting...Read first post in this thread!

The DNR is continuing to lower the bonus permits numbers. 8 more counties had their numbers lowered from last year. 4 of the counties dropped out of the late “special antlerlerless season".

Only 1 county (Martin ) went up. It went from a 3 to a 4.

Reduced tags…

LaGrange – 4 to a 3
Steuben 4 to a 3
Marshal 4 to a 3
Sullivan 4 to a3
Jackson 8 to a 4
Whitley 3 to a 1
Benton 1 to an A
Switzerland 8 to a 4

Added tags…

Martin 3 to a 4

Gary, welcome to the site. I know nothing about your group but what is on this thread. It seems to me you've answered questions asked openly and honestly. I'd just recommend ignoring any of the personal posts as you've mostly done. I used to get involved in some of them and it never produced a good outcome on any public forum. Not everybody is gonna agree with every idea but it seems like you are trying to do what you feel is right and I respect that. Good luck in your ventures.

Sure is nice tonight up on Maxi. More fishing in the summer equals less arguing! h.h.

Envy you, HH! You're in my old stomping grounds!