A Like is merely meaning you are following them and would be argued "informally" supporting them. To officially support and be a "member" you must email them name, county and such....they have the information needed posted and where to send.

Spelled it out best I could for you guys, had to move on. If you want answers come visit us. But some things there are no answers. Or answers yet. We cannot commit to a detailed structure for every single little issue, season, weapon, these are wild animals in a constantly changing environment. It is fluid not static. That is one of our main points in filling biologists positions and empowering them to be more fluid in addressing issues. IF EHD hit say Marion county today and killed all but one deer every square mile. What should we do, continue with deer reduction? Kill those last one every square mile, then wait 2-5 years for legislators and management plans to go through the system, or allow trained biologist so assess the situation and say we have to shut her down for xxxx amount of time. Or on the other side of things, for whatever reason three years ago, every doe in Marion County had three fawns, and no one has been hunting because prior to that they stopped seeing deer. Then shouldn't the biologist have the flexibility to say hey we are hitting 15 deer a week on 465 lets increase the permits to 1-2 per hunter to let them deer be utilized instead of wasted on the highway as road kill. That's just two senerio's, sure we could come up with millions and talk about every one, while the bus pulled away. That just not rational. And really would love to talk back and forth, just not enough hours in the day. Actually hate all this writing only. Downfall of modern society in the works in my opinion. Written word only 10% of communication. Wish there was time for us all to meet and talk and work it all out. That however is why the old groups that attempt that are failing. Our society has changed. People don't all have free evenings every week to meet and discuss issues and make a difference. The Facebook format allows everyone to talk about it all the time but without being a major disruption of work, family, work, work, work, but has its drawbacks of misunderstandings. Heck maybe me and Brew would even be friends in person???? Big??? But you get my point. Think I did a good job in response to Bacon, and the last three posts that in their entirety are one. We are first attempting to get the biologist positions filled, get bonus county permits and dep tags lowered and not to be used in the summer, promote a deer advisory council in each county to first hand talk to the users of the resource and help them give valuable input such as in Wisconsin. Promote honest dialog with the DNR and all other entities in the game. In our letter to the Governor post, we spelled out our Top 10 Goals as a group and as individuals. Since I stopped posting on here my words have already been perverted about surveys and everything else. Never said anything about a survey, rather first hand input, never said we were not working to reduce permits, never said anything like that. So even if we could come up with all the answers and feel we had a 100% chance of getting everything we wanted dealing with hunters, farmers, legislators, governors, non consumptive users, if we had to change one stance to negotiate another stance that is better overall then those of you that are asking these questions would call us liars and manipulators. We can't win. Already happening on a multitude of issues, because we say we just don't know, don't want to be involved in this or that issue, or just a divisive issue that will never be solved among us. No since going there. Man we being as honest as we can. Even within our board of directors there is differing opinions. I personally am strictly a bow hunter, crowsbows for turkey just my choice, I never ever knock a gun hunter or crossbow hunter, or try to change a season because of a weapon, but if all the entities in the game decided to shorten Gun season you all would say because I was a bow hunter it was our fault. Even though it may be a Governor that decides some day to do it. Even though this first time I ever brought it up or ever want to. I don't care what you hunt with. I was only personally against the HPR because of state of the herd. However posts on our page were 50/50 so we didn't make a stance. But seriously guys, that the point, none of us will win and we will all lose including future generations, if we cannot come together on the basics, we want a healthy huntable population of deer in Indiana, that are hunted in humane ways (no summer dep tags), and we want to protect the hunting tradition. Those are things that are not varying goals, those are foundation goals. So can you see how much time I have again took up attempting to persuade a handful of people, when we have 10,000 plus that get it, and are just saying man we are not seeing the deer and we want to, we are scared for our resource and want to talk about it. Then you see we are not representation completely, like Joe is for IDHA, his opinion or perception of your opinion, and even if that is correct if you have more than two members he can never ever ever represent both 100%. What we hope to be is more of a facilitator than a representative. We want the say, hey on this issue, say deer reduction, most of the people on our page are saying it has gone too far. Now please go back senator, governor, wildlife chief, read our posts, or members posts, comments to those posts, see how many likes we get on this or that. See for yourself what the people, citizens, owners of the resource are saying in the best easiest way they can. We just want to facilitate you listening. So gotta run, hope I convinced you all to join, more so to comment to the powers that be that can make a difference, help us all to help each other. Leave the rest of the skeletons in the closet, lets go out an live guys. Good nite, going to another meeting about this now, just so you know.

Gary, please dont take offense, but "Paragraphs are your friend".....there is no way I'm going to try to read that..I get a head ache just looking at it.....

I actually find all of this perplexing, yet understandably real. The old groups for years tried to get people involved but frankly, few joined and even fewer got involved. Why? Well, some folks didn't join the IBA because they felt the bow hunters were always trying to hose the gun hunter. Folks didn't join the IDHA because they didn't like the OBR being supported by it. Oh, and there are an endless number of other reasons why folks didn't join, didn't engage. Now, I'm not trying to be critical of those that didn't join or didn't engage. But what I always found was so many started complaining about the groups not doing enough, not accomplishing this or that, even though those very same people would never join, never engage. So those old groups grew weary, frustrated and simply, old.

Now here we are again, another group forms and at this point they have momentum and followers. But still, many want specifics, details, basically a guarantee of the groups position. Otherwise, they won't join or support or whatever. So what I would say then is, start another group. Start ten groups. Actually, the more maybe the better. At least then we could get more at the table. And my fear is always this, even from my own idealism, is that a lot of folks really, down deep inside, have the thought that its "resource first IF it's my way". Maybe the best thing is to leave the details out because as soon as any group or organization adds detail, it becomes one big p*****g match and the resource, well it loses.

I like your style Delaney. I don't engage much with any grass roots organizations lately. You won't catch me on face book either. If we are talking grass roots though the DNR doesn't need just biologists, they need workers and I think some groups could offer volunteer help along with these demands for action on the deer hunting issue. Seen any deterioration in facilities like boat ramps, camping areas, etc? It's about the money in the state budget and also federal in some cases, and there's not much there. Maybe some groups could be organized to assist or even sponsor certain projects. Kind of like gaining access with a farmer and helping with the chores.

I really like your comment and suggestion Double. Actually years ago, and unfortunately not much since then that I'm aware of, a few groups in central Indiana had a few work days at Atterbury Fish and Wildlife and cleared some small sections of the property. We had to take our own equipment because the state wouldn't allow use of their because of liability concerns, but yes, there is much that sportsmen and sportsmens groups could do.

Delaney Agree or disagree, I'm not aligning myself with any group that hasn't and/or won't put out a mission statement and a position statement.

It's just that simple......

yup

I dont expect or care about knowing where they stand on every issue ... I would be content with trusting their honesty. When a story changes multiple times during one simple online conversation I find it tough to trust that person.

Spelled it out best I could for you guys, had to move on. If you want answers come visit us. But some things there are no answers. Or answers yet. We cannot commit to a detailed structure for every single little issue, season, weapon, these are wild animals in a constantly changing environment. It is fluid not static.

That is one of our main points in filling biologists positions and empowering them to be more fluid in addressing issues. IF EHD hit say Marion county today and killed all but one deer every square mile. What should we do, continue with deer reduction? Kill those last one every square mile, then wait 2-5 years for legislators and management plans to go through the system, or allow trained biologist so assess the situation and say we have to shut her down for xxxx amount of time. Or on the other side of things, for whatever reason three years ago, every doe in Marion County had three fawns, and no one has been hunting because prior to that they stopped seeing deer. Then shouldn't the biologist have the flexibility to say hey we are hitting 15 deer a week on 465 lets increase the permits to 1-2 per hunter to let them deer be utilized instead of wasted on the highway as road kill. That's just two senerio's, sure we could come up with millions and talk about every one, while the bus pulled away.

That just not rational. And really would love to talk back and forth, just not enough hours in the day. Actually hate all this writing only. Downfall of modern society in the works in my opinion. Written word only 10% of communication. Wish there was time for us all to meet and talk and work it all out. That however is why the old groups that attempt that are failing. Our society has changed. People don't all have free evenings every week to meet and discuss issues and make a difference. The Facebook format allows everyone to talk about it all the time but without being a major disruption of work, family, work, work, work, but has its drawbacks of misunderstandings. Heck maybe me and Brew would even be friends in person???? Big??? But you get my point.

Think I did a good job in response to Bacon, and the last three posts that in their entirety are one. We are first attempting to get the biologist positions filled, get bonus county permits and dep tags lowered and not to be used in the summer, promote a deer advisory council in each county to first hand talk to the users of the resource and help them give valuable input such as in Wisconsin. Promote honest dialog with the DNR and all other entities in the game. In our letter to the Governor post, we spelled out our Top 10 Goals as a group and as individuals. Since I stopped posting on here my words have already been perverted about surveys and everything else. Never said anything about a survey, rather first hand input, never said we were not working to reduce permits, never said anything like that. So even if we could come up with all the answers and feel we had a 100% chance of getting everything we wanted dealing with hunters, farmers, legislators, governors, non consumptive users, if we had to change one stance to negotiate another stance that is better overall then those of you that are asking these questions would call us liars and manipulators. We can't win. Already happening on a multitude of issues, because we say we just don't know, don't want to be involved in this or that issue, or just a divisive issue that will never be solved among us. No since going there.

Man we being as honest as we can. Even within our board of directors there is differing opinions. I personally am strictly a bow hunter, crossbows for turkey just my choice, I never ever knock a gun hunter or crossbow hunter, or try to change a season because of a weapon, but if all the entities in the game decided to shorten Gun season you all would say because I was a bow hunter it was our fault. Even though it may be a Governor that decides some day to do it. Even though this first time I ever brought it up or ever want to. I don't care what you hunt with. I was only personally against the HPR because of state of the herd. However posts on our page were 50/50 so we didn't make a stance. But seriously guys, that the point, none of us will win and we will all lose including future generations, if we cannot come together on the basics, we want a healthy huntable population of deer in Indiana, that are hunted in humane ways (no summer dep tags), and we want to protect the hunting tradition. Those are things that are not varying goals, those are foundation goals.

So can you see how much time I have again took up attempting to persuade a handful of people, when we have 10,000 plus that get it, and are just saying man we are not seeing the deer and we want to, we are scared for our resource and want to talk about it. Then you see we are not representation completely, like Joe is for IDHA, his opinion or perception of your opinion, and even if that is correct if you have more than two members he can never ever ever represent both 100%. What we hope to be is more of a facilitator than a representative. We want the say, hey on this issue, say deer reduction, most of the people on our page are saying it has gone too far. Now please go back senator, governor, wildlife chief, read our posts, or members posts, comments to those posts, see how many likes we get on this or that. See for yourself what the people, citizens, owners of the resource are saying in the best easiest way they can. We just want to facilitate you listening.

So gotta run, hope I convinced you all to join, more so to comment to the powers that be that can make a difference, help us all to help each other. Leave the rest of the skeletons in the closet, lets go out an live guys. Good nite, going to another meeting about this now, just so you know.


There you go Jeff V. sorry I was writing to state legislators, organizing things for a meeting, all between seeing my patients, and was getting ready to try to grab a bite to eat before going to another meeting about the HERD after not eating all day, and just scrambled it together, for one last outreach.

From the posts, I think most on here align with us, just don't realized it because of preconceived notions, distrust and whatever else may be your reasons. But you see even the detail over how I hurriedly attempted to answer you became an issue.

JJAS, you are welcome to sit on the sidelines and complain, bottom line is no details matter if we just sit here and do this. To many players in the game, get to detailed no room for any agreement and this is what we get, bunch of arguments. Seems simple to me? Good luck to you all, hope you enjoying shooting your bows and the upcoming squirrel season, I missed the fair this week, because I am DOING something, challenge you all to do the same.

Like Delaney's post, start your own dang groups, at least you will be doing something.

'cause thats the only way to do something ..... lol.

Gary,

You keep challenging people to do "something" and you wrote that you missed the fair because you are doing "something"....And while you accused me of complaining, all I asked for, was an explanation of what your group's "something" is.

A mission and position statement would provide those answers. And while I understand your group is new, I would have thought you folks would have had something prepared to post when those questions were asked.

Regardless, If you get something put together @ some point.....I'd like to read it.

Constructive comments are probably better served. Everyone knows that there are many ways to be involved, but I believe the point is that many want to complain and yet still often do little to get involved. And actually, that's not all bad but when those complain about those who do get involved, well it simply doesn't seem right

Where have I complained about deer or the DNR? Or the IWDHM group for that matter.

All I did was ask some questions.

+1..... The past HISTORY of some of the board members of the IWDHM is by far there biggest set back going foward..... And will always be!!!

S, I'm not saying you are complaining. My only point is it seems like most, whether its this new group, the IDHA, the IBA, QDMA and list goes on and on, just picks, picks, picks at issue after issue after issue or lack of detail and I'm not sure what the point is. All groups should likely simply state their mission and let it go at that without ever trying to explain anything further. I've lived through the picking, picking, picking with the IDHA and I can tell you first hand that it gets old and is largely worthless in explanation. The IDHA has funded and assisted with handicap hunts, handicap weekend outings, youth hunts, youth education, donation to Muscatatuck for the education center, Splinter Ridge survey funding, archery in schools program, the Fort Ben outdoor experience, and heck the list goes on. But, what is remembered the most? People couldn't support anything about the organization because they didn't like this position or that position. If you have lived this via an organizational involvement, you then probably understand where I'm trying to come from. Let the new group try to accomplish something without the constant, but, but, but, but. HIstory is a good thing to know, but it is not the precedent for future actions.

Brew, would you say the same about board members from most of the other groups as well? No need to answer really, I'm just trying to make a point about how no one is typically ever happy with any, so to say. So, how does stuff then get moved forward.

Delaney I agree 100% and it's the reason I asked for a mission and/or position statement.

They have a mission statement....it not quite as good as mine but its close.

Well spoken.....

That's true to a point.....Some/most Older groups have a lot History of GOOD things as you pointed out with the IDHA and others. When the good out weighs the Bad it makes it easier to move beyond the BAD .... IMO

Brew I agree completely. But in the case of a new group,(which obviously has no history to base decisions on) their position on issues is critical to me when deciding whether I want to attach my name to that group or not.

Its a simple trust and honesty issue with me .... if there are questions surrounding several small issues how is a person supposed to trust them on the big issues.

I think Hillary Clinton is having those same issues right now ....

That's understandable for sure.....

Aren't you currently banned again from the IWDHM page for no apparent reason?

Yes. So is tynimiller ....

I dont really mind that I am banned but having not broken the rules they claim are necessary a person breaks to be banned is bothersome. Its is but a small piece of the overall puzzle ....

I posted a survey....and banned.

I have posted on here to great lengths and answered everything we are about. Just look back. Yet the answers are, and never will be good enough apparently, someone on here will continue to find one word, or one sentence, or the fact we didn't use paragraphs because we were attempting to answer you in a hurry. Thought better than not answering at all. Some will continue to attempt to bait us into a weapons issue or some other divisive issue that they can then twist to their benefit. We are not going there at the IWDHM Group. Other than Delaney and Dew, I have not heard one positive piece of dialog yet on suggestions on what WE ALL CAN DO, where is your details?

I don't have to justify myself as caring about the resources of this state. I wrote my first bill that became law that funded the TIP program when I was just 19-20. About the same time started writing articles, ironically my first one when I was nineteen I believe was about bonus county permits or reductions, something like that. (Did get paid for these articles; however promoted IDHA every chance I got) Have that first article the dust in the attic somewhere. Helped with the handicapped hunt that my father has facilitated for the IDHA for 30 +/- years. Served on the board of the IDHA as Editor for untold years, Editor of the Hoosier Record Book for Ten Years (3 editions. Photographed probably a hundred IDHA events. When I was just a kid basically myself at 19-20 started taking kids without fathers that came to IDHA meetings on hunts and teaching them. Not a one day token feel good project, but years of teaching them. We just run into one down at Atterbury now in his 30s loving the sport and teaching his own kids. Other than the articles, never received one red cent for my efforts.

I have also taught my kids and their kids to be honest ethical hunters and citizens. And in the words of President Reagan to Brew, "Just Shut Up". You go around the internet spreading hate and contempt and calling people liars and the sort, without provocation or evidence. I have called one person a liar, and backed that up with evidence to prove it, when he attempted to discredit the group slanderously, and slow our progress not for the sake or our herd but his own power trip.

As far as banning from our site, I have too explained that in very full detail. It is insignificant in the statistical picture. I will not comment on a single banning issue, that is the Boards private decision and will be kept quite as to specifics of individual bans. Everyone of the few that are banned know exactly why, and you can possible see that as to how they conduct themselves on other sites as well, promoting repeated disharmony. However again, I will say I have explained more than enough for the average individual.

But you know what that don't mean squat in this debate going on. None of it. It will not save one deer from here going forward. All this is fluid like a river and constantly changing. We all have to be on constant vigilance against the threats against the herd. Again, however as much time you all have spent here and caused me to spend just to attempt to bridge some support with the IDHA, is truly wasted time and effort. I don't care if you don't "follow me, follow me. .. " Do whatever you can for what you think is best for the herd. If you help preserve the hunting tradition and a huntable herd, we behind you 100%, don't care how you do it or what you do. Go out and teach a kid to hunt, not a token day long program, truly mentor and teach a kid, show some investment in real time. We don't' coach little league by having a day long seminar in football. We teach them for weeks. Don't care about the details.

Unlike Hillary, I am not after your vote, or power, or office. I am for the powers that be to listen to what the majority of sportspersons and non consumptive users are saying, and that is, we are not happy with the amount of deer we are seeing for our enjoyment as citizens in the state of Indiana. That resource is our property as citizens of this state and country, and we want them to listen to our complaints, ALL OF US, in a format that is free and easy to every citizen and facilitates the voice of grassroots Hoosiers consumptive and non-consumptive users.

Just wanted to speak from my heart for a minute as an individual. Thats why I made my screen name my real name. Always had the courage to be upfront and truthful never seeing a need to hide behind a screen name or avatar. I always have and always will be a member of the IDHA at heart. I truly believe in what it once stood for representing my number one passion in life, THE WHITETAIL DEER. Also, respect many many of the good things they continue to do. HRBP, Handicapped Hunt, Archery Programs for Kids, wild game cookout..

I have spent my life in a love affair with whitetail deer, not just hunting but observing , photographing, learning, and just relaxing in their world. Only place felt truely free from the demons in this world. I have no doubts that as long as I am healthy I will get a shot at a mature buck every year until I am dead. No worries there. I cant say that I believe that for my kids and grandkids , nor yours. Deck stacked against them. Not just with deer management but society in general. Scares me for them. I don't think they will experience many of the blessings I have, and my kids have great careers, Things just not the same. I am scared for my country.

I am intelligent enough to know I cant change the world. However also intelligent enough to know if I put all my effort in something I passionately love i may make a small difference for them and the deer. So when I close my eyes for the last time I pray I can at least think I left some wild places and animals for them, not just in a pen somewhere.

Now how its all gonna turn out dont have a crystal ball, but a highly educated guess. I know that the pure in heart hunters will follow our lead and engage for the herd. I think most of the lifetime IDHAers will, know it. I know the selfish people with selfish agendas will continue to be divisive as long as it dont fit there agenda perfectly. There are not a lot of WWII vets left that gave us the example of the whole comes before the one.

So I know those with a pure agenda will do the RIGHT THING no matter how they do it. And the rest will keep on dividing until it is all gone. So the former have my respect, even Joe Bacon, though we dont agree on much., I know he cares about deer and family. And the later you have lost my respect and I don't care much if I ever have your shallow respect that changes with the wind. So I will leave the later with a news clip from one of the biggest liars we all know about one of my HEROS that has the final say. http://youtu.be/tmfkYu4m2jA.

Much better .....

Sorry try it one more time for laughs. http://youtu.be/tmfkYu4m2jA.

Gary, since you seem to want to turn this into a PERSONAL issue I will respond...

I know very well what I have read posted on the FB page and other forum sites by Board members of IWDHM...
You are entitled to your OWN opinion but not your OWN FACTS....Bush League at it's finest!

“Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please.”
― Mark Twain

Lol dang wont work from you tube but to go with my last post you can see it on my personal FB page at: https://www.facebook.com/gawalters1/posts/10153515970674233

And Brew buddy goes for you, see I more like Reagan than Hillary. Tell it like it is.

Been a long day for sure.

Good Lord..... Someone shut this thread down! 🍼

Ditto^. Nothing else to be gained.