Thanks Brew for making my point. Have a nice day sir.

Got it Weedhopper, your mailbox full so couldn't reply. Thanks, love your quote, one and only reason I even attempting to do any of this brother. God Bless

My exact thoughts also....

Great post ... And very forthcoming

Administrator, can you please remove my quote post from 4:07 pm today. I did not post that, must have clicked on the quote button when reading comments. Sorry for the mistake.

Gary.... I appreciate your efforts. They are genuine and an attempt to better a horrible situation going on with our current deer herd. Please disregard Brew's antics as nothing to worry about. They are known antics and rhetoric that has been applied on all Forums/Blogs and such that he frequents.

Wish you well in your quest to make the common hunters voice heard with our IDNR.... But as you know.... They are "hamstrung" at this point by NRC Members and Political entities. When IDNR Brass says in a meeting I was in with a sitting Senator and states "what they WANTED to do with the herd was taken from them"..... You know they are frustrated with direction things have headed.

Individuals like jjas and Brew on this site fought to take away the power of what the IDNR wanted to do..... And now they get VERY upset at those that 1) Remind them of their hand in that. 2) Try to establish reconstruction of this mess with ideas about shortening days to hunt bucks with a gun.

They are full of ideas for "self fullfilment".... And to heck with the resource as long as it does not effect them or the number of days they have to hunt a buck with a gun.

Feel free to PM me and I can discuss tactics that we now find helpful that we are following through with that we do not post on public Forums. And yes.... Those tactics foster "haters".... But I and others are more worried about the current resource than some "haters" that commend "azz whippings to keep the planets aligned".

Tim

Gary,

I watched a couple of the videos on facebook and there are some things I agree with your group about (and a few things that some of your members have espoused that I don't).

Regardless, good luck with it.

Good evening to all....

That' pretty much the Pot calling the Kettle BLACK....Being how you been banned on about all public forums but this one and the one you own...

BTW...Dew you should sign up with the group you and ShoulderNuke(Ed Hunt) will pair up great...Old AcheryTalk buddies...LMAO

Let there be calm.

So you ran those sights? I was banned...or did I just leave and it sounds better to you to say I was banned.


Spin it how you like Brew......... I know it makes you feel like something.

Have a good eve.....

Before the Jerry Springer show starts all I will say is,

The DNR asked for hunter input. Phil Bloom IDNR public relations head had a article online and in many newspapers asking for hunter input on PROP#1 and listed the website to do so. Somewhere around 3000-3500 did just that with a vast majority opposing Prop#1.


Most of them are the average Indiana deer hunter, not guys who live and die hunting antlered deer and surfing deer hunting sites.

Simple put the majority of Indiana deer hunters did not want Prop#1 and a few guys just cant handle that and wont let it go.

My advise to everyone is manage your property the way you want, I do and that yielded a nice 154 6/8" 8 pointer with a handgun last year. If I could figure out how to post the picture so its not sideways I show you what managing will do. h.h.

FYI, I personally banned you on one. h.h.

That is correct....... I was on a site that wanted nothing to do with voices of reason. I felt proud to stand up to the tyranny in that forum. Your leadership has banned many known good voices in our deer community including the leaders of good deer organizations in this state including reps of the IDHA.

Proud to be part of those that were banned for speaking up to the tyrant Woody.

We found a good home many different places including here and our own sites.

Good reminder to what you represent Hornharvester...

Amen... Great post... Spot on!

Amen to that.

Manage your property within the confines of the law. I am stating this only for anyone else viewing this thread that may take that as avoid/ignore any and all regulations and do as you may on your hunting grounds.

Just not working in the big picture HornHunter, glad it is for you, but leasors around farm I own, kill everything they see, and say they move on to another lease when gone, they getting their moneys worth. I own my farm and have long term goals and investments. Co-oping and QDMA not working in most areas of Indiana with landholdings small, and human nature of Greed.

For sake of not infringing on a trademark, "The Jerry Springer Show", I would respectfully ask that we try to focus on the topic (s) at hand and not others personal status or standing on other sites. Just no relevance here because otherwise, yes, we could once again simulate the said "Springer Show". I love the meaningful input and do appreciate the fact that even haven't fallen all the way into the outhouse yet, although we seem to be sliding a little.

This ^^^^

Wasn't that what you and your family did for 20+ years Gary,shooting everything you could?..... Shooting double digit numbers most every year!!!

But now it the DNR's fault or the guy next door .... SMH

Gary,

We have (according to QDMA data) 10.8 hunters per square mile in the state of Indiana. Iowa has 0-4 hunters per square mile and Illinois has 4-8 hunters per square mile. If this data is correct, the only way I can see to substantially reduce the harvest is to limit tags.

Without purchasing a single bonus tag, one could kill 3 antlerless and one antlered deer with a bow tag, crossbow tag, firearms tag and muzzleloader tag.

So how do you lower the harvest? Do you just sell a "deer tag", leave the obr in effect and limit sales to two tags per hunter?

And if you do that, how would it affect the DNR's revenue stream, LTL holders and landowners?

Just curious....

Not sure why you didn't spell my user name right but I suspect its to try and degrade me and my comment which is only the truth.

Basically I manage my 127 acres the way I want because I can. There is a nice herd of around 20 or so deer that stay on my property because I provide them with habitat and food. And the nice thing about that is the government pays me to do so.

I could care less what my neighbors do as that is out of my hands. I have no right to tell them how manage their property or what to kill since I don't pay their property taxes. As long as its legal, hunt/kill whatever you want on your own property, works for me. h.h.

If its not legal than its poaching not hunting. h.h.

Here's HH's 2014 buck...



Dang nice buck, Mike!

That's a fine buck for sure.

Thanks for posting it Weed! h.h.

Yer welcome, sir!

One time does not make a trend.... Nore does it prove your success was the production of YOUR singular management on just 120ish acres surrounded by neighbors you don't even care what they do...... And attempt to sway others they can have the same experience by just "doin' things your own way".

I do admire your efforts on your property though .....

And yes..... That's a dang nice buck. Congrats to you.

How do you know they shot double digit #'s of deer off their farm Brew? Just asking.

I would agree it would be difficult to point finger at IDNR for them choosing to kill that many...... if your information is correct.

Read joes post in this thread......Plus Gary has said so !!!


"I'm going to comment on IDHWM Facebook page as President of the IDHA and a member of the FWCC.

IDHWM came to the FWCC wanting to be a member with NO/ZERO group structure, their only claim was that the "net" was the future of communication. That might be but today we use a network of interested parties with a structure. Let me also add that IDNR has a Facebook page. People can comment as they wish with no fear of being censored, that can not be said of IDWHM.

The IDHA learned long ago that polls can be manipulated by how the questions are asked,IDWHM has not learned that the questions they asked are loaded in their favor or they do not care. You as a member are either "for" their agenda or you are banned.

IDWHM seems to be against IDNR's deer management plan....... Two of the three representatives at the FWCC meeting actively participated in the liberal deer harvest of the 80's, 90's and even into 2000's! There was ample bragging of deer harvests per season in the "family" of more than 20 deer harvested,the "kill number" was justified as the family consumed the deer, now today the IDNR is the problem? I can't comment on the 3rd person as he, to my knowledge was never an IDHA member.

Anyone can check the IDHA's position on herd reduction, even back when there were county quotas, the IDHA warned of over harvest and the result. We were told and I quote....... "We built the deer herd once and we can do it again." Search my quotes on this site and others and you will find this in my history many times.

CWD,EHD,Deer farming/Deer rehab, canned hunting, mean nothing to the Facebook page ownership, membership was not involved.

The IDHA will support ANY group that has filed as a group with the State of Indiana or the Federal Government and meets tax recording requirements...... At this time the IDWHM does not meet the standard required for membership in the FWCC."

Joe Bacon

President IDHA

--------------------

HornHarvester, no disrespect intended at all. Just misread the username, apologize. Nor was I diminishing what you have or have accomplished, that is great. I was just pointing out that it is not the norm in the state. I have 145 acres and it is very hard to keep the deer on MY property, that I spend thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours on every year in management and habitat improvement. However what about the average Joe hunter that just doesn't have the resources to own their own farm, but want to enjoy the citizen owned resource? The average Joe that wants to take his boy to say Yellowwood and just see some deer and harvest one, shouldn't he have that opportunity, or should it be taken away because a few greedy individuals killed 8 apiece for a couple years and moved on?

Brew, you seem to know me better than I do myself, sure don't know you, nor does my family. Seems you may be a stalker of some degree? However, no your information is absolutely incorrect. Me and MY FAMILY, for decades worked to maintain permission all over the state, hunting in double digit counties and other states annually, put in for special/military/park hunts. We have never taken more than 1-3 does off any given farm in any given area ever. Even when we are fortunate to hunt Military areas together we are spread out all over the base in the different areas. Not DNR's FAULT, rather a management plan forced upon them by some that may not be as concerned for the resource as we are, IE: farming/insurance. Did we wrong you in a past life or something? Just wondering? Sorry we are successful deer hunters and great management tools, maybe you can be too when you grow up.

JJAS, this is the dialog we are promoting at IWDHM Group. What is the answer? Seems the regular tags allow sufficient harvest to manage herds. Do we even need bonus permits and extra winter antlerless season? Of course if you mention doing away with all bonus permits there would be a enormous uproar, and the DNR should have this tool where needed. We are just promoting moderation in using them. Especially not in excess. Dialog is needed how we work all this out to find a happy median and not this all or nothing, too many or not enough. I think most sportspersons are conservationists. Our licenses are such a small part of the cost incurred deer hunting. Maybe if there is not as many tags, there could be an increase in cost/funding for the DNR. Indiana has always been one of the cheapest places to hunt license wise in as long as I remember. Maybe we need to step up that cost/funding. I think most would pay more for a more enjoyable experience. Just my thoughts. Conservationists have historically put their money where their mouths were, as well as action. Keep sharing yours. We would welcome it on the Facebook page to keep it more condensed for all to see what sportspersons that are looking for solutions and answers are actually saying. That is what we want to accomplish streamline the communication between all parties interested in the Whitetail Deer.

Also, I cannot see pics on her, just box's w/ x in them. Does anyone have suggestions on how to see these pics. I like any other hunter like to see deer pics.

How many unique licensed hunters do we have each year? Including those who hunt using landowner and lifetime licenses .... is it 250,000 or so?

And we kill 120-130,000 deer a year?

Even if we only allowed each hunter a single "deer" license we would have to hope that over 50% of the hunters are not successful in order to shrink our kill numbers.

I have pondered the following questions many times .... how many deer do we have. How many deer do we want. How did we arrive at those two numbers.

I pondered those three questions when the DNR was supposedly wanting to reduce our herd.

I ponder those three questions when a group wants to increase our herd.

Like that information myself S_Wilk. Wonder how we get it?

We dont ... not officially anyway.

I own property in Gibson County .... 150 acres of prime habitat surrounded by other prime habitat. Good neighbors and low(er) hunting pressure. The density on and around my farm is very, very high with a balanced buck to doe ratio.

I know my farm and my area very well.

I also know that Gibson County is 526 square miles .... and that just 2 miles south of my little chunk of heaven the situation might be totally different let alone 15 miles south.

How many deer are in Gibson County? How many deer should there be in Gibson County? Dont we need to know those two things before we can lobby for quota changes?

We kind of go year by year ..... kill what we think is necessary and encourage those around us to do the same.

S_Wilk, you hit it on the head, shouldn't we know and shouldn't we manage the deer that are there. Sounds like you do have a slice of heaven there. That is great for you, but in the bigger picture that is not for everyone. That is what we are addressing. The DNR should have an estimate and manage annually off those estimates. Not everyone is the sportsmen we are and attempt to manage ourselves. Since 2011 we have not been able to kill even one doe for my grandkids off my big farm, because they are getting hammered around us. The does that stay on our property have actually made the buck hunting better. Where they going to go, where the does are, that simple secret to success, most overlook, lol. But again we can only ethically kill so many bucks as well. I do monitor my neighbors best I can. But again IWDHM Group is looking at the bigger picture. Some of our members up north are reporting seeing an abundance of deer on their areas for years, now sit for a week all day in the rut and not seeing any. See that is what we are promoting, for the DNR to be able to manage an do their job. Here is their mandate by law:

Statute

Indiana statute defines the authority and responsibilities of the DNR Division of Fish and Wildlife:

The [Division of Fish and Wildlife] shall . . . provide for the protection, reproduction, care, management, survival and regulation of wild animal populations regardless of whether the wild animals are present on public or private property . . . [and) Organize and pursue a program of research and management of wild animals that will serve the best interests of the resources and the people of Indiana.

(Indiana CodeTitle 14, Article 22, Chapter 2, Section 3)


That means research or inventory what you have and manage accordingly. That way the herd get managed consistently all over the state, not just where the few like yourself care to do the right thing no matter what is legal.

So where does it say the DNR has to count all Game&Fish.... ????

According to Chad Stewart....

Myth 4: The DNR needs an accurate count of deer to effectively manage
them across the state.

Wildlife biologists and statisticians have
recognized that population estimates are not
necessary for effective deer management. Many
states do not conduct population estimates for
their deer herds. Rather, the DNR manages
deer by evaluating trends over time. From those
trends we’re able to estimate whether the deer
herd is increasing, stable, or decreasing. These
trends, along with public surveys, are used to
determine deer management objectives.


Agree or disagree, that is the method being used and I don't see the DNR changing that.

Lets take Gibson County just for the sake of conversation .... what is your plan to do an inventory of that county? How would you even begin to try and get a number when dealing with 526 square miles? Over 336,000 acres.

Its a monumental task .... but in order to ask for a change in the quota we need to know the number. If a strong case cant be presented to the DNR they will likely continue as they have been .... tweaking quotas year to year based on what they are seeing.

Gary Walters As has been pointed out, we have a lot of hunters in the state. More than enough that @ a 50% success rate, the harvest numbers would roughly stay @ the levels they are.

And doing away with the bonus antlerless system and late antlerless season is (IMHO) off the table. The DNR wants a method of trying to raise/lower the harvest numbers without having to go through a reg change to do so.

I wish you guys the best in searching for ways to change the system, but I still don't see how you get around the fact that we have a lot of hunters in this state and very few (on a percentage basis) kill more than 2, maybe 3 deer.

And those three deer can be killed by purchasing the bundle or bow/crossbow/firearms/muzzleloader tags without ever purchasing a bonus antlerless tag.