Originally posted by GaryWalters:
I posted this to DFW:
I have posted some questions her that have went unanswered by a biologist administrator, rather have been addressed by a lay person from the outside. The biologist did respond that the numbers for deer reduction zones and bonus county permits are for a perception of where overabundance are deer are from, and really people killing all those deer are not really probable or significant. We have repeatedly been given this canned response by the DNR in letters as well. Refer to Woody's comment on here about reality and he used DNR 2011 survey. I used the same survey and the 2011 Deer Harvest summary to just run the numbers as you have reported them. Now my question to a trained biologist is: are 38,372.29 antlerless deer significant in the overall picture of deer management in Indiana? That is the amount of antlerless deer killed by people killing 4 or more deer in 2011, that is 29% of the total harvest which already consisted of 50.5.% female deer. Don't know who killed the 0.29 deer, lol. But I would say that is very significant, despite using the small percentages of hunters that do it, in a manipulation of perception. I would appreciate the biologist that I and most hunters help to pay a significant portion of their salary respond to us as citizens, and not a lay person, that a biologist just wants to confirm is correct as in one of the other posts, though it still didn't explain that issue. Thank you for your time and efforts in addressing this question from a citizen. Again 38,372.29 antlerless deer, is that significant as a total of 29% of the harvest, despite the fact that less than 5% of the hunters do it?
IDFW facebook page deer reduction zone post 8/19
I would also suggest you read my reply to Woody on the same IDFW post under his reality comment:
So Woody, since you are answering questions that should be answered by the biologist that I help to pay for, as well as should be the one informing the public on this site and answering my question, not a self appointed deer management expert, great example of Good OLD BOY club that has been affecting deer management in Indiana way too long. I guess I will have to answer your response, again a play on numbers. Let's put your numbers in perspective, using the survey you quote above. There were a total of 164,688 licensed hunters, not including landowners, military hunters on leave, etc that do not have to purchase a license. Also it says estimate of lifetime license holders, which I don't understand, looks as that would be the easiest exact number to find, especially from such a reputable survey company. They harvested 129,018 deer, of which 50.5 percent were does, in Indiana in 2011, the year the survey refers too. Again all numbers are from that survey, or that years harvest summary published by DNR. So lets break it down: Hunters harvesting 4 deer number 3952.5 harvesting 15,810.04 deer. Hunters harvesting 5 deer number 1482.192 harvesting 7410.96 deer. Hunters harvesting 6 deer number 823.44 harvesteing 4940.64 deer. Hunters harvesting 7 deer number 399.38 harvesting 2305.63 deer. Hunters harvesting 8 deer number 988.13 harvesting 7905.02 deer. So these hunters that harvest 4 or more deer, since there is a one buck rule, they all must be antlerless; harvested an additional 38,372.29 antlerless deer or 29% of the total harvest. That seems to be pretty considerable amount to me. In addition to the fact that the total harvest in 2011 included 50.5 percent females. Two of the previous Deer Biologists John Olsen, and Jim Mitchell, as well as the famed James Kroll, have made it pretty simple, If you want to grow a herd < 33% of your harvest must be antlerless, if you want to maintain a herd that number should remain around 33%, if you want to reduce a herd it must be above 33%. Just simple figures. See they have used you, Woody, as a tool to perpetuate further perception manipulation by using these big survey's with big numbers, that make those < than one percent statistics look insignificant. I will contend that 38,372.29 antlerless deer are very significant especially since they are 100% antlerless. See the smoke and mirrors. I think in the future, I would prefer the real biologist that I help to pay for answer my questions as a citizen. Thanks though Woody for allowing me to put your reputable survey into PERSPECTIVE.
A couple of points/questions....
1. I think the report that you are referring to was published in 2011, but I thought it concerned the data from the 2010 season.
2. Where did you get the 168,000 figure?
3. Wouldn't it be necessary to include the ltl holders and landowners numbers and harvest numbers to get an accurate figure to be used to come up with your data for the number of antlerless deer killed by hunters who killed 4,5,6,7,8+ deer?
