Very nice. Thanks for the post.

Interesting, seems the DNR is serious about listening to hunters and evaluating the recent changes before making additional changes.

Won't be down this weekend due to family member having a serious surgery. Good trail can pics so far on the properties down there.

Thanks for the invite. I will definitely let you know.

WoW....

Im glad to see they are done pandering to the whiny narcissistic special interest groups

LOL. You seem to be trying to set off some fireworks this morning Trapper.

It will be interesting to see how this all shakes out...that's for sure.

I wouldn't say it over and done yet!!!!!

I can appreciate your optimism and hope that the regs are given a good look @ and that the input of sportsmen (the majority who didn't want the changes) bears some weight in the final decision.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see.....

In politics, and to a certain degree the DNR has to deal with politics, nothing is ever over. Regardless of outcome, it is nice to see a well thought out position by the DNR and possibly an indication that there will continue to be a heavy reliance on global input of sportsmen.

Just took quite a few calls from some that are seeing this, and the Fish and Wildlife recommendations. I found it interesting that NONE on the phone with me could give a rats butt on how this goes.........but EVERYONE of them was quite concerned by the statement of "we will review regulations in 5 years"........that's 2016 folks.

Each of them during the conversation was H E L L bent on making sure their neighbors knew and they knew......this next 4 years is going to be the largest drop in population of deer our state has ever seen in history. They were already coming up with ways to convince people to be responsible as to not "over harvest" just for the heck of it. Two also said they and others will now lease more ground to keep those out that have no self control.

Sportsmen appear to be at war with each other more than ever before since the NRC did what they did in 2011......and now at an all time high (and climbing) negative outlook of our NRC....and IDNR that is now trapped under the NRC's manipulation from 2011.

**Less Deer
**Less Quality
**Less License sold to hunters by 2016 due to dramatic drop in deer to hunt
**More leasing to "lock others out"
**More division between Hunters than ever before
**More distrust of the NRC than ever before
**More Indiana hunters looking for out of state deer hunting opps by 2016 due to ravaged deer herd at home

All since the NRC took over the IDNR in 2011 and made the IDNR throw out their "first choice" and made them settle for their "second choice".......and will continue to get worse on how sportsmen see the NRC clear to 2016. They (NRC Leadership) made their bed with those that they even said they were exchanging 100's of emails with in the last NRC session where Prop #2 was adopted......time to reap what they sewed.

Mark my words......There will be some ABRUPT changes for the 2017 season.

Not far away at all......

Lots of "wheel greasing" time......

Expect Electronic feedback from the public to weigh heavy on things that "don't matter" to the IDNR.

Expect Hard Copy Mailed surveys (such as they used in OBR data) to gain TRUE data on things that DO matter to the IDNR in the future.....ensuring NON manipulated input.

THAT's gonna sting quite a bit to those that like to "appear" they are the Majority as they succussfully did in 2011.

More hunters looking to hunt out of state and in state hunters leasing more ground to keep others out? Which is it Dew? Are they leaving the state or not.

Surprisingly, you make less sense today than usual. I think you likes to hear yourself talk.

All of this is speculation. What happens with the proposed regs? Will the regs implemented last year be left to run for 5 years? Will 2017 bring "abrupt" changes?.....

Sounds like a bad soap opera doesn't it?

I hope the proposed regs don't make it. I don't see them as necessary. They are confusing and helping to continue the divide among hunters.

I say (and have said) let the current regs run for 5 years and then be judged on the success or failures that they bring. And that is basically what I said (yet again) when I posted during the comment period this time around.

I sometimes think folks forget that if the DNR wants to roll back the harvest numbers in the future, they need not revise season lengths or such but basically only address antlerless tags.

And maybe avoid some of the foolishness that has been going on for the last two years in the process.....

Yep.....I like to talk about things others don't want discussed. And as you will learn right now Hunt N Nut........there are different reasons why people lease.

1) They will lease outside of Indiana to find the Quality that was taken as our herd is being drastically cut, and our 32+ days of gun season remained intact. Our IDNR did not want that to happen in Prop #1 but due to the NRC's leadership manipulation of Prop #1......we now have a massive deer reduction in place.....and no means for Quality to be sustained. Hence we are already hearing from the Leadership of the Hoosier Record Book the drop in Quality entries. Again....Hoosiers will lease OUTSIDE of Indiana for the Quality that is being lost at a dramatic pace already.

2) Those that aren't as interested in Quality here in Indiana, they will lease inside Indiana.......they will lease their fellow Hoosiers out so they still have some Quantity left. We have already begun to see that. That is EXACTLY what Base Camp Leasing told us and Wildlife Officers in both Illinios and Ohio told us. The Lack of Quality draws Hoosier hunters out of Indiana to lease.......The lack of Quantity will drive those left in Indiana to lease to at least have some deer to hunt. The overcrowding of our Public Ground these days are those that got "shut out".....and there will be more of them. Interestingly enough.....some of those pieces of public ground know how they hunt too....and exclude all hunters from using their Bonus Doe tags on those public properties!! They know the type that got booted/leased off the private ground.......and they don't want their "kill 'em all" attitudes to ruin the public ground either.

There ya go Hunt N Nut.......ya learn somethin' new every day don't ya.

People lease for different reasons......imagine that....LOL!!

Leasing takes place for a variety of reasons. More and more of the ag land is owned by the big farmers and corporations and thus that land gets consolidated. That causes some restriction to private lands. Municipalities continue to expand and take lands for a larger development and tax base. That also tends to restrict hunter access. Many farmers and landowners have watched what has gone on in other states in regard to leasing and the ability to make money from that activity. This has been happening for quite some time and likely would have continued regardless of the quantity and quality of Indiana's deer herd. The above things have little if anything to do with Indiana deer regulations.

Now, quality could increase as leasing expands because those who lease reasonable amounts of property can then start the process of managing for whatever quality and quantity they wish. Of course, this somewhat depends on property size and habitat and the surrounding lands hunter attitudes. This then also takes much out of the hands of the DNR and creates an interesting situation. Actually, there is leased land in Indiana that is controlled by some TV personalities who are looking for quality opportunities, as they determine quality. Certainly, if the IDNR simply did away with deer season there would be plenty of quality and quantity, but obvious social problems.

Whether or not Hoosier Record Book entries will increase or decrease in the future is reasonably pure speculation. Frankly, if the deer herd reduces, there might be a corresponding reduction in social deer hunters, thus reducing pressure on the herd and quite possibly increasing the age structure of the herd for both bucks and does. I think it should also be remembered that the Hoosier Record Book entries should have absolutely no influence over regulations or deer policy. The record book is not a scientific analysis of anything and there are always a number of deer throughout Indiana taken every year that probably could be entered into the book that are never entered for whatever reason. This year at the Renfro Show there was a booner that they guy didn't want entered, if I remember correctly.

Reasonably False Speculation.....That is not what the Leadership/Scorers of the Hoosier Record Book are saying/documenting currently. There has been a noticeable drop already in Hoosier Record Book entries for 2012. And it is being discussed at events Delaney/Hanes does not attend....or obviously does not discuss with those that have the data he speculates about.

Delaney/Hanes speculates real time data.......Hoosier Record Book Scorers and Leadership documents real time data.

Doubt me Delaney/Hanes??......put a wager on 2013 HRB entries are even less than 2012's. Steak Dinner......Candle light......little Whine from you while we eat......??? Wouldn't get any better than that....

Nuff said.....

Lame.

Dew, can you not read. in the FUTURE it is pure speculation. You may wish it not to be but it is what it is. I attend one event where the scoring takes place and I do believe the number of deer scored at that event was down. I don't talk to John about the overall yearly numbers. I did though check in a head that was eventually scored by CK that have made Boone and the guy said it didn't want to enter it. So, my point was and is that the Hoosier Record Book is not a scientific measurement of buck harvest of whatever kind in Indiana. Sorry that doesn't fit well with your agenda. And the documents are real time only to the extend that hunters wish to have their heads scored or entered into the books. As such, it is real time only in the sense of non scientific analysis.

+1....

+2

I have One in the book thats enough for me , Have others at home, Not interested in entering more ,with that said, I am not alone. so number entered shows deer that owners wanted entered not all that could have been

But with the so called antler worshiper phase and the griping about the increase in "trophy" hunters wouldn't you expect the number of people wishing to enter HRB bucks to increase?

I would think today's hunter more than ever in the past would seek their name in a book.

I think it depends on the age of the hunter, how long they have hunted and a number of other intangibles. Years ago I went to Idaville, Indiana to score a deer for guy. When I got to this guys place, it wasn't actually his deer but a guy who this gentleman was doing taxidermy for. When I entered this guys garage I was surrounded by a number of bucks that would go 140 or better. I commented about it and he said they were all his. He was an older gentleman and I asked if they were all in the record book and he said no. He said one was but that he didn't bother with the others. At the time, I was a little amazed at his comment. I also used to hang out and help, a little, at a butcher shop near Lake Cicott and would be amazed at how many times, although not overly frequently, that guys would leave 130'ish antlers behind and not want them. This was about 15 to 20 years ago.

The other intangible that might be affecting antler harvest the last couple of years is the disease that has hit some areas so hard. If the disease has taken the toll that some think, that might have an affect on the bucks and it might simply take a year or two for the bucks and age classes to reestablishment in a number of areas throughout Indiana. This too possibly could be an influence that has nothing to do with season length or even bag limits.

You are correct.

But expect those with only interests of meat, or those with little skill, or interests of just watching a sunset on stand, .......or those that just don't care, etc, etc to "throw stones" at the idea of hunters caring about quality deer. There are many reasons why there are "those that don't care".......but every one of them would crack the 170+ incher standing next to the spike given the chance......EVERY YEAR.

The split in their tongue runs DEEP........and EXCUSES/BLAMING are their best friend.....

......whole nest of 'em in here.

What's so wrong with sportsmen/women hunting for meat, enjoying sunsets on stand, or taking that buck of a lifetime if he happens to walk by? While you choose to live deer hunting 365 days a year, love to hunt big bucks, scoring racks and record books...not everyone that hunts deer is that way.

Deer hunting is many things to many people and that's why I supported the 2nd proposal. And while you just can't seem to grasp why people don't "see" things "your" way, I'm just the opposite. I get your obsession and I try to understand the more casual hunter as well.

In the end, I just don't think your obsession should trump other peoples opportunities to hunt with a firearm in November or enjoy the new crossbow regs during the archery season if they so choose.

what you said jjas

Quote of the year from jjas.......and now I'm going to shed some light on "his type"....

You bet....there is NOTHING wrong with people meat hunting, enjoying a sunset......or taking a buck of a lifetime. And as you look over my posts.....you will NOT see me pulling people down for wanting to enjoy those aspects of hunting, or shooting dinks, or just being able to take a doe....etc, etc, etc. But you WILL see jjas "types" attempting to "pull down" those that like "quality" in their hunts......you will see jjas pulling down those IDNR regs that keep "quality" in the hunts......you will see jjas enjoying those that take a "buck in a lifetime" ...as long as they don't do it too often, and consistently year after year....LOL!!! You will see jjas types wrecking the IDNR's first proposal to get to their selfish agenda of crossbows passed in the second choice that our IDNR was forced to come up with.........while I submitted my final feedback to blend both Prop #1 and Prop #2 to ensure quality and quantity issues were BOTH addressed. JJAS has my feedback on such....and won't tell you that part.....go figure. He has what I submitted as my final request to the NRC but doesn't want the world to know how selfish jjas was in the end....while others were trying to compromise. Typical Woody....

And now jjas wants you to all think he's still "God Status" because he picked the "right" agenda of crossbows, and "ravage the deer herd #'s, and worry about quality some other day"... LOL!!

My agenda is simple......address Quality and Quantity at the same time. Be positive about those that want to shoot for meat, dinks, does, and Monster Bucks. There is NO wrong way to hunt...and there is no "interest" that is bad.......but having Quality Bucks #'s go up so others get a shot on ANY property they hunt....not just properties like mine.....that is my wish for everyone. And that they get to enjoy that EVERY year......on EVERY property........and DON'T have to lease or travel out of state to get that opp.

But jjas doesn't want that for you......for MANY reasons......even though he travels out of Indiana to lease for Big Bucks. He doesn't care what is left in Indiana for quality since he doesn't have anything here at home that is worth managing for such.......so to H E L L with the idea for anyone else to enjoy that either. He also voted ANIMATELY against the One Buck Rule....again, not wanting anything Quality left in this state. That's how the jjas's see it.......that's the jjas method of thinking.......that's the jjas kool-aid that he got you to swallow.......and that's that message he wants you to believe right now, as he taunts..."the next 5 years won't be so bad".......LOL!!!!!!!!!!!

And you've got the likes of Brew's in this world that rescue the jjas types... that don't want 32+ days of gun season to end since their trucking job duties may conflict with a change in that "gun schedule" to just hunt bucks...........and you've also got the Delaney/Hanes types that post often that they don't even care about deer hunting, and attempt to rescue the jjas types. All the while straight up telling every one of you in here....."They don't care about deer hunting".....but they want you to listen to them and their ideas of what they don't care about.

.......and try EVERY DAY to ravage Indiana away from managing for Quantity and Quality ....as other states all around us have found a way to do EXACTLY that. And doing it SO WELL...that jjas pays to go to those states, thumbing his nose at those that are left behind in this mess here.....that he HELPED create!!!

Comical......and Pathetic.......and makes me ill you all have to see this happen.

And now worse due to a few NRC brass trumping what the IDNR wanted as their first choice in 2011. Yep......that's where this all started......and that's where it all lays.......still as the responsibility of what those NRC brass did. And they know who they are......

........and so do we.

Dew,

You seriously are a piece of work.

If selfish is hoping that hunters in this state can hunt with a slug gun, muzzleloader, pistol, pcr, compound, recurve, longbow or crossbow, then...I guess I'm selfish.

If selfish means I think it's wrong to shorten one groups season to benefit another groups.....then I guess I'm selfish.

As far as the obr goes....I have/had no problem with it but I do think it's given too much credit for the improvements in the bucks in this state. Without the reduction in doe numbers the buck herd would not be in the condition it is. In other words...one wouldn't have worked, without the other.

BTW, I don't normally hunt other states. I might have a few times in the past, but not on a regular basis. There's no need to as there was/is plenty of quality deer in Indiana and there will be for years to come. Just ask B&C and the gentleman who killed the 2nd largest hunter killed buck anywhere here in Indiana last season. Yep...the herds going to h*ll in a handcar.....lol.

So you can continue to post your fairy tales about me but that's all they are...fairy tales that only you believe....

Sorry, one more thing...here's a link to book I think you may find helpful....http://www.amazon.com/How-Win-Friends-Influence-People/dp/0671723650

Just so we are clear, and you can quit worrying.....I did not get into this sport to make friends, hunt with, sway or influence people like yourself.....

.....I just expose them for who they are and what they represent......and for some unknown reason, they are uncomfortable even with their own "resume" when it is put in summary and writing for all to see.

That's pretty clear.....

Dew ...well...I guess it's good to have goals.....

And please finish what I meant....

.....friends LIKE YOU.

Case in point.....its good to stay away from those like jjas, and expose them for what they are.... that take portions of what you say....and try to make you appear as something that you're not.

Dew,

I think you've done a masterful job of letting people know exactly who you are.....

Makes two of us......

I'm quite happy with people reading my posts and forming an opinion of me from that.

Never doubted that for one second........LOL!!!!!

Seriously, let's see how many pages of banter you two can get. I'm pretty sure this has ran it's course.