Valid, I'd say either way you want to take it...but for at least the last 5 years if memory serves we've averaged well over 20K so let's roll forward with that. Thanks in advance.

For someone who has done nothing but complain about the late antlerless season, why would settle for anything less other than it being completely shut down for?

And moving all counties to 3 bonus antlerless still does not solve the problem with Does being killed off.

If you can take three extra Does and your neighbors all take three extra Does, guess what you still not going to see deer as they are still going to be nearly wiped out.

If you truly want to make a difference than the state is going to have to limit you to total amount of deer period. Personally I would like to see the state implement a quota like they do with State Park hunts.

One Buck and two Does or three Does and that is it. Also, you are limited to ONE Doe per county till you've hit your limit. Most hunters do not hunt multiple counties so it would work great and you would start to see a huge impact within a few years.

that would work also ..

"If you can take three extra Does and your neighbors all take three extra Does, guess what you still not going to see deer as they are still going to be nearly wiped out."

well heck, Ive said similar in many threads... a high bonus country number gives the impression there is an over abundance of deer, when in many areas there is not within that county... and even though most dont take more than 2 or 3 total deer, it will ad up on said property if multiple people take those 2 or 3+
.... Ive also called for a state wide hunter limit... no more than the 3 limit tag that is available ... actually I wouldnt mind a two deer limit (thats my own personal limit now), but those with the bundle would beech up a storm..

When all the bundle talk was going on, I really was hoping it would be a two deer, any season bundle instead of a three. The could have retailed it for $55.00 and then sold bonus antlerless tags after that for $24.50 each.

But...it didn't happen and I don't know that it will change anytime soon....

Let's not go by "memory"...... please find the last 5 years opening day harvest exact #'s..... the year, then the number.

Thanks

here ya go:

The last 5 years the first day of firearms season have been as follows...

2016 25,000 deer 32% of the total firearms harvest
2015 26,000 deer 35% of the total firearms harvest
2014 24,000 deer 34% of the total firearms harvest
2013 21,000 deer 28% of the total firearms harvest
2012 26,000 deer 36% of the total firearms harvest

The average per year is 24,400 deer and the percentage of the firearms harvest is 33% of the total firearms harvest

First off......."averages" don't matter in this game. Year start number to year where we are number .... matter. As I've said before...... if you have two tires, one with 40 pounds of pressure and the other with 10 pounds...... you don't still go driving around (unless you're just dumb) and say things are OK since your still have an average of 25 pounds between the two tires. You pay attention to the "here and now" and pay attention to the day/year and screwed up tire that is THEEEE problem and take a look on how to fix it. Just throwing "averages for the last 3,5 or 10 years" is just a jjas/Woody trick to "soften the appearance" of what TODAY really is compared to the year we STARTED.......... so please don't go there with me tyni.

As for your numbers...... you still didn't give me exact numbers......did you round up or down from the exact number for that year. For example was 2015 26,950 and then 2016 25050? What could appear in your estimates and look like only 1,000 animal diff........ it would be truly be 1,900 animals.

See...... I've played this game with jjas's long enough to know that "memory" and "estimates" and "everything was the same" is code for trouble....just like until jjas's were reminded recently (which they knew all along) that everything was NOT the same this year compared to last with extended antlerless and extended archery this year. They (jjas's) didn't want to pop that truth serum out till they were forced to...... and still want to live in denial of what that points to....

But being the "honest guy" you are coming from Woody's forum and camp......... lets not go by memory or estimates......

Exact numbers please.... and then I'll type what I'm thinking so you can tell me I'm wrong....

Whatever man...assumptions as to my thoughts and feelings....sorry I rounded numbers but not gonna bother getting exact as you've already written off any merit of conversation.

Zero clue who you are personally so the assumptions are amusing...have a good one.

Thought that's where this would head. Just wanted to see if you were directionally rounding numbers on some years but not the others.......and address with you the whole "averaging years together" nonsense.

Bottom line......... the jjas's/Brew's and others on so called "hunting sites" that were NOT the majority messed up our IDNR several years ago....... now it's on THEM to come up with a fix to the train wreck they initiated. They ABSOLUTELY want to portray no fault of theirs whatsoever at this point..... nor attempt to fix the spiral we are on.

But some of us here have a memory....... and some of us here know what is going to be fixed and HOW it will be fixed........

I'd be good with 3 deer (one buck max). I'm not sure it would really do much except for the potential psychological impact of creating the impression of scarcity. Maybe folks would shoot fewer deer but I really doubt it.

One thing to keep in mind is that we function with limited data that is essentially restricted to how many dead deer each county has at the end of the season. That's good for overall trends but its a small window looking at the deer population.

In 2016, there were 2,166 hunters that killed more than 3 deer (and 852 of that 2,166 killed more than 4). And while some will disagree, I don't really consider that a huge number (852) of hunters statewide when we've been in the midst of herd reduction.

FWIW...it's my understanding that the DNR is shifting more towards a "management as needed" goal and as such I'm sure there are going to be counties that are targeted for reduction as population trends warrant. Just as I would imagine that there will be more counties removed from the late antlerless season this year (as there have been for the last few years).

Additionally, I suspect few of those that kill 4 or more deer are hunting in areas that are low on deer.

You wouldn't think so, but I have no idea.

They could be hunting a county that's an 8 and taking that many deer off a single property, or they could be hunting multiple counties and/or properties and taking one deer off each farm.

Who knows?

The new post confirmation survey Joe sends out would be able to decipher this information...we may never see it but they will.

That is if everyone does the survey like they should...

Hopefully Joe can glean some good info, and perhaps include it in the harvest report this year.

The only person I know that shoots 4 or more is doing it on his intensely managed lease. He told me once he considers shooting does a chore. I get that intellectually but it still makes me a little sad emotionally.

You make a very good point.

While it's popular to generalize...not all hunters who are shooting multiple does are doing so with little (or no) regard to the overall number of does they are seeing. Some are actually trying to manage the herd on their land.

My point is, statistically you can't make an apples to apples comparison of harvest percentages (harvest numbers mean squat as the the harvest varies annually) unless the weapon opportunity is directly comparable.

Think of the total harvest as a whole pie. The more slices you cut into a whole pie, the smaller the slices become. The crossbow added a slice that didn't exist before. That difference cannot be accounted for pre-2012.

The difference in the archery percentage of total antlerless harvest can be compared pre/post crossbow inclusion.

From 2009/2011 (pre-crossbow inclusion) that number was 24% of the total antlerless harvest. From 2012/2016 (post crossbow inclusion) that number was 28% of the total antlerless harvest for a difference of 4%.

And as such, the firearms percentage of total antlerless harvest dropped in the 2012/16 time frame as I said earlier...

Perhaps I should have made that clearer...

I’m one of the four or mor have been as long as I can remember
Thing is it’s Park hunts, at one time BOK, Ohio Co, Switzerland co, Jefferson co, and state park hunts I live here and have more places to hunt than I can get to I own two farms here miles apart , and very rarely will I kill two deer on the same farm and spots I hunt are miles apart so just because a guy Killed 4 or more doesn’t really tell the whole story

what was the total kill this year of all the park reductions ?... they are now being added to the total kill ... dont think they were doing this before.. did they do that last year ?.. previous years ? ... no tags are used in the reductions, but yet the the kill numbers are in the final totals ....... the 2016 summary shows graphs from the park kills, but were they always included in the total ?? I found the answer... no, not until 2016 were they included, but the totals were adjusted ..

2016-2017 DEER HUNTING SEASON
Deer Harvested by Season
Previous summaries of Indiana deer hunting seasons
did not include harvest numbers from Indiana State Park
Reduction Hunts because those deer were checked in at
the properties and reported separately by the Division of
State Parks and Reservoirs. Now that the deer check-in
process is online for all hunters and hunts, deer harvested
during State Park Reduction Hunts are included
in the check-in database and can be reported with the
statewide totals. Therefore, the 2016 summary includes
harvest numbers from this year’s State Park Reduction
Hunts. Additionally, harvest totals from 1993 to 2015 have
been adjusted to include deer harvested during these
hunts (Figures 1 and 2).

The park hunt summary from 2016 showed 1219 deer being taken.....

Here are the state park numbers...


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...MRR.pdf&usg=AOvVaw0s0kbcYgeaOLFXb9I39seo

Thanks for the info on the park hunts. Interesting. Maybe I should consider doing one again. I had a bad experience last time down at Versailles State Park. A little yearling buck showed up about an hour after daylight. Being small, I chose to let him go and try and take a doe since that was the goal to reduce the herd. Bubba, the guy next to me decides to shoot. I'm fine with that, good luck. He misses. The deer runs right between us. Bubba keeps shooting three more times. I was grateful that I was in a stand. After that, I got down and went home. No park hunt is worth getting shot.

Deleted double post. Oops.

ending with 113,585
-1000 aprox from the park reductions
--------
112,585 for 2017 or there about's....

Why would you subtract the park bucks when every year prior includes them in the harvest?

they only started to include them ... plus there are not any "tags" used for the reductions... why should they be included

This is the statement about the harvest totals as it relates to the reduction hunts.


Additionally, harvest totals from 1993 to 2015 have
been adjusted to include deer harvested during these hunts.

Personally I didnt realize the park hunts are now part of the online check-in process for all hunters and hunts.

But as stated 2016 summary includes harvest numbers from this year’s State Park Reduction Hunts. Additionally, harvest totals from 1993 to 2015 have been adjusted to include deer harvested during these hunts (per the report)

I wrote that many posts back .....

So what's the confusion? All the prior years have already adjusted per the information.