Guys, it is unlikely this season will end up with another 10,000 deer killed. This leaves us with the worst hunting season in 15 years.

Still better than all but three seasons prior to 2004.

that was then, this is now ^^^ .... the DNR will blame lousy weather on the opening gun for the decline.... dosnt matter about the rest of the looooong gun season ..... then the loooooong ML season.... and the kill all the Does Dec. season .... there is less deer to be killed, maybe THAT is the reason, and maybe just maybe, guys have learned and are passing on Does .... I'm sure the buck kill will be drastically down also, but hey, it started so late, maybe that is the reason..... it could never be there are less deer to be killed... nah, never ... ........ btw, only a tad over 106K taken right now

Get use to it because the dnr will cut gun and ML season lengths in the next two years.
Herd is under control now, guys bitching about deer numbers being down so the only answer is to cut the gun and ML season length. They will remove the first week in each of the gun seasons so opening will be the Saturday before Thanksgiving and out of the rut. Remember, Indiana wants to be like Ill and Ohio...trophy deer and higher price license fees. h.h.

I killed 2 so far and saw more deer this year than the previous 2 years.

The lower kill is surely a result of a combination of factors but the biggest one is that opening day was a complete washout. The many hunters that only go on opening weekend just didn't do their part this year. I personally know of at least 4 parties that sat in their motel rooms drinking all day on opening day. Their trucks were still in the lot on the second day so I suspect they weren't real effective on Sunday either.

Anybody that really wants and has the skills to kill a deer in Indiana will kill a deer.

Is this just your prediction? Or, do you have factual evidence of this? Just curious...

I bet some real money that won't happen.... especially any time soon!

Just my opinion but many indicators point that way. Look at the whole picture of deer hunting in Indiana and tell me where you think its headed next? Most all the deer hunters I hear talk bitch about the numbers but cant seem to keep from buying a bundle tag and then filling all the tags. DNR let the Indiana deer hunters shoot themselves right into reduced seasons.....Merry Christmas...h.h.

You might be right but Im betting sometime in the next 2 maybe 3 years it will happen...especially if license sales drop. h.h.

They'd probably do more cutting down on the number of counties in the late antler-less season first.

They could fool around with that for several years before doing anything else.

Exactly...

You have not had your worst season yet . Unless you quit hunting this year .

I wouldnt cry if the state moved and shortened gun ... but that wont happen.... the DNR will cut back on bounus tags and counties that are in the kill all the Does Dec. season ... I dont think cutting bonus tags will do squat, cant kill what isnt there .... wait and see how low the buck kill will be, that is the indicator the biologists say ....

but as I said earlier, I'll lay odd's, it will be "the weather" and "the season gun started late" for the DNR's excuse ... just wait and see ... it will be in their 2017 summary...

So are you saying "the weather" and "the season gun started late" had no affect on the numbers?

I believe he is. That over 20,000 deer down from this opener compared to last year means nothing. It’s all the DNRs fault. Some are never satisfied until it all fits their agenda. Seems to me the reduction in the herd they were going for is working and now it’ll be time to keep it stabilized.

The opening weekend of firearms normally accounts for approximately 40% of the buck harvest for the entire deer season.

To those that say the weather (and to a lesser extent) the timing of this season wouldn't impact those numbers, IMO ignores the facts the data shows year after year.

So will the buck harvest be down this year? I would imagine it will be, but I think it's got a whole lot less to do with overall deer numbers and a whole lot more to do with the weather (and to a lesser extent) the timing of the opening weekend of the firearms season.

it was a long deer season for me, I spent around 50 hours in a stand to shoot a small 6 point last Tuesday with a muzzleloader. I'm not sure how much control the dnr has over the regulations anymore. when the state passed the high powered rules, they did not want the dnr's opinion because the dnr was against the use of high powered rifles. I was in contact with my representative, and he did not even read the proposed law as it was written. all he knew was that it was written by a republican and him being a republican voted in favor of it. I think that the politicians want total control because they are more interested in the revenue from license sales than they are about managing the deer herd. I hope that their greed comes back to bite them in the butt, because people are not going to spend near as much money on hunting gear and a license if they are not going to see very many deer.

Weather and numbers were factors here. I am sure weather in some places was a factor. Numbers and weather are factors in others.

Our numbers are really DOWN. Big time. We didn’t shoot a doe in our area and neither did surrounding hunters. Luke has gone the last month without seeing a deer. I would dare say there isn’t very many hunters who has spent more time in the stand. It has been a very frustrating year for him. I think he has missed 13-14 days since October 1. We can only control what we can.

Can't dispute that there are counties (or more likely areas within counties) that have lower numbers than in the past. Some of that is due to herd reduction, some is likely over hunting, some is habitat loss and I'm sure some is the loss of available hunting ground due to development, leasing and/or purchasing of land by other hunters (or outfitters) so as to try and increase their land holdings.

I hunted public land in the HNF opening weekend. The weather did play a factor. I didn't even hunt opening day. Camped down there for 4 days and just skipped the opening day. Way too warm and windy and of course the thunderstorms. I heard a total of 10 shots that day. Most opening days I'll hear an average of 200 shots minimum. Sunday wasn't much better as far as hearing shots. I went the second weekend as well and heard a few more shots but overall not as many vehicles in the parking lots. I saw plenty of antlerless deer and got a shot on a decent buck but missed him. I'm a single parent so I don't get a lot of time to hunt. 5 days total this year.

I told several of by buddies years ago when prop 1.0 was thrown out and they were all upset... "No worries guys, what Prop 2.0 just did will guarantee the state will shoot themselves into a reduced gun season."

......... and here we are....

I continue to believe the problem is this is a big state and it has diverse habitat. In the south there are plenty of woods and places for deer to go and avoid humans. Those counties are doing very well with deer numbers.

The northern part of the state is a different story. When corn prices went up a lot of the deer habitat was bulldozed to create more tillable land. That's why many of those counties have a reduced herd. Hopefully with corn prices down farmers will put their land into CRP and other programs. Habitat is as important a factor as hunter harvest in my opinion.

The DNR was straight up front that the goal was fewer deer. We should not be surprised.

From a 2013 article on DNR website:

108,169 .... maybe another 4000 with the Dec. kill all the Does season (I doubt that many, but who knows), and few killed the last two weeks of archery and the Reduction zones.... I say we end up with around 113K

You've made a lot of good points.

We spend so much time fussing on forums and social media over seasons, equipment, the DNR and reading the same old "just you wait till next year" posts year after year, that perhaps if we spent a good portion of that wasted time and energy on habitat improvements, it might actually help the situation...

You can have the best food plots, cameras, hunting clothing, bows, guns, optics, etc. But, if there aren't places for deer to live, there aren't going to be many deer to hunt.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all.

If you look at the end of the deer report from 2016, it shows the % of each county that is considered deer habitat. http://www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/files/fw-DeerSummaryReport_2016.pdf

You can also find # of deer killed per hunter effort for each county (plus a lot more) which is a much better indicator than the total number killed.

108,339

That's 91% of what last year's harvest was!

Darn, down almost 10% ... ;0) ... down down down ... yea, it may be what the DNR wants, its not what we necessarily want ...

Brew It wouldn't matter if it were 99%....

It took a generation of hunters to get us where we are today, "a declining deer herd". It will take that long again to educate what MANAGEMENT is. As IDNR stated before, "We built the herd once we can do it again.".

I won't enter the argument, I and the IDHA are on public record that this is where we were headed, and now we have arrived. Crossbow,PCR, HPR, longer seasons, remember how these were all to retain and grow hunter numbers? How has that worked..... decline in hunter numbers continue while effective range in all seasons increased as well as hunting seasons length.

The lie has been exposed, now you get to reap what you have sown.

To both of you with just "year by year memory"...... what is it the percentage of the year before Prop 2.0 was introduced....where this mess started that people like Brew and jjas advocated and forced the IDNR to do? Hmmmm... don't want to put that "percentage" up unless reminded to cite what the REAL damage is??

Jbwhttail Jb,

So what's the answer?

Do you think that the state of Indiana can support a larger herd? How large? How is that decided? How do we know when that number has been reached? What determines a growing herd in your mind? Higher harvest numbers? One buck/one doe harvest ratios?

If you want to grow hunter numbers, how do we do that? With hunters struggling to find places to hunt now and being forced onto smaller and smaller parcels as the years go by, how would you suggest more and new hunters go about finding private land to hunt on? How about securing funding for more public land?

What about habitat? Do you think Indiana has the habitat (especially in the northern half of the state to support more deer? If not, how would you suggest going about improving the habitat? How would it be paid for?

You've obviously been involved on a state level for years. Are there things that you wish you might have done differently? Are there things that you feel you can accomplish in the future that you weren't able to in the past?

Do you feel that the IDNR has been ineffective? Do you feel that the leadership past/present is somewhat to blame? Do you blame those of us who didn't support prop 1? Do you support CDACs (or similar groups) like the IWDHM pushed for? Do you support the new survey being taken by hunters from the IDNR when you check your deer in? Do you think it will provide valuable input?

With all due respect, it's easy to drop the "you get to reap what you have sown." card, but in reality you've been @ the forefront of these issues during the time it took to get where you say we are, so can you see a way to "fix" it?

I hope that you will take the time to answer the above questions. I'm certainly not looking for an argument, but I would love to hear your opinions on the subject 5 years after prop 1. I'd truly appreciate it.

Thanks for your time.

Whoaaaaaa!!!!..........wait a minute pup......


LOL!!!!.......... Joe's "Being at the forefront of these issues" ended over 5 years ago when people like you jjas took the reigns from Joe and the IDNR and made them throw out Prop 1.0...... this mess to explain is not Joe's anymore........ it's for the jjas's of this State to fix/explain, but they still want to blame who they took the reigns from many years ago.

Low lifes..... that ain't leavin' the "low life"....... "blamin' someone else for the MESSSSSS they made."........"don't want to reap what THEY'VE sown"...

Keep spewin' jjas........ just keep spewin'..... It just frosts you to no end right now that as those reigns were taken from Joe and the IDNR by people like you jjas........ their prophecy has now come true...... and somehow that's "Joe's Fault and he needs to explain how to fix it".............. LMAO!!!

Like I said...

I would appreciate Jb answering my questions...

He's already answered you jjas........ it's your bait...... not his problem, and he knows it...

please read his posts more carefully.

I believe Jb can speak for himself....

And I believe a good man like Joe can type plain words for you to see, and spell out clearly his intentions....... but you just want to fight, even on Christmas with good people....

Gonna finish what this day was for...... somehow by the grace of God I hope you can too jjas.....

If jb wants to answer my questions @ his convenience he will, if he doesn't that's certainly his prerogative. And I'm not looking for an argument, only his opinions.

So...please go do whatever it is you wish as I certainly didn't (and wouldn't) ask for your opinion on this or any other subject.

Percent change is new value minus old value divided by old value (X100 to convert to %). In this case, even if no more deer are reported killed:

108,454 - 119,477 = -11,023 / 119,477 = -9.2% (.092)

So 9.2% fewer deer killed.

Realistically we should see about 4,000 more deer killed so the final might be more like 6% fewer deer killed this season from last.

But that is pretty easily explained by the rough weather on opening day. Like it or not. The limitations we have by looking solely at raw numbers killed v. a population estimate or kill adjusted for hunter effort force those big assumptions.

Bottom line is it will take a whole lot more than a 6% drop in one year before major policy change is indicated. Especially since that has been the stated policy goal for years.