Many of the guys I know are seeing less and less deer every year. These are not bioligists, NRC members or DNR employees etc. These are guys that actually get out and live deer hunting. Most of them year round.

I think the deer population is way down in many areas for a variety of reasons (ehd, predation, liberal limits and seasons). I'm fortunate to be able to hunt in several areas of the state and all of them are down in numbers compared to years past. It seems like each year is getting worse. Fortunately the immediate areas I'm hunting is by like minded individuals who see this and we are managing for it but I know many where this isn't an option.

I'm saying all of this because I feel the increased trend for shoot all does and give guys additional opportunity is going to have a very negative effect on hunting in the near future. I have the opportunity to hunt Ohio and they are starting to experience this already. Almost every Ohio forum has members concerned with low deer numbers. I only bring this up because I feel we are starting to mirror things they are already doing or considering i.e. (late muzzleloader season, opening season earlier, allowing crossbows, considering a antlerless only early muzzleloader season and etc.)These changes will only accelerate our affect compared to theirs, as we have less deer numbers overall, our habitat is more open and our gun seasons are much more liberal.
I know there will be guys that respond with I'm seeing more deer or quit shooting does if you aren't seeing deer and etc. I think overabundace of deer are only in very restricted access areas. As far as the don't shoot the does, that is very hard for someone with small properties or those hunting public areas to control what everyone else is doing. Only a small percentage of hunters stay informed and go onto forums like this or spend all year involved in the deer hunting process. The rest believe whatever the DNR puts out and thinks if they allow so many to be killed that they are fine shooting whatever they see.

Many also say how can the harvest #s keep going up if there aren't as many deer. Here is how: Each year we are increasing opportunity and extending seasons. As this continues more will be killed each year until you hit a wall and the numbers start to drastically decrease. This is what is happening in Ohio right now and what I predict will happen in Indiana in the near future.

Guess I just wanted to express my opinion in hopes of persuading people to offer their input on these new "increased opportunity" type seasons.

I know many will be introducing new hunters to the hunting/outdoor lifestyle and it is hard to keep their interests up when there aren't many deer to pursue.

Yep...agree 110%.... I bought less deer licenses this year cause of the lower numbers...killed less too....

I welcome more time/oppurtunity to hunt.

Ive talked to a lot of guys this year..ALL but one have seen far less than in the past...Most are seeing way more BUCKS than does..Most of the guys SAY are going to quit killing does to get the numbers back up...At least I hope they do...LOL..

I reduced someones opprtunity today by one doe w my old renegade .54. My grandpa wanted a deer so i got him one!

Those crazy biologist! Can't believe they aren't listening mechanics, salesmen, construction workers, assembly liners, teachers, police officers, roofers, and othe blue collar workers. I'm not a biologist either but I do know that people complain when there are too many deer, not enough deer, or not enough "big" bucks. Pick a fight and stay with it. These are not all in one. There is too much varying habitat in Indiana to paint the state with a broad brush as deer limits/season goes. Hence the varied antler less quota county to county. And they're always changing. EHD, drought, bad winters, just plain bad luck, etc. You manage your property how you wish. Joe Blow wants to push their "management" plans on other people and for the other people to do the work or suffer so Joe Blow can "manage" his farm for "big ones". I don't believe everything(hardly anything) the state tells me. But when it comes to more biology than politics, you almost have to take what you are given. Now is where you conspiracy theorist come in with the outrageous claims of why deer numbers are down.....cougars, insurance company lobbyist, Obama, republicans, Sasquatch, etc

Not sure how you got that out of my post but I wasn't slighting biologist. I was just stating I am not a bioligist and giving my background as an avid deer hunter. In hopes it might sway someone that has noticed the same to provide comment instead of saying nothing.

On another note, if you think Biologists in our state are making decisions regarding our deer herd rather than politicians I'm not sure it is worth trying to explain anything else to you.

"On another note, if you think Biologists in our state are making decisions regarding our deer herd rather than politicians I'm not sure it is worth trying to explain anything else to you."

Spot on Cody!

I've been involved in this game since 1983(When IDHA was formed), there has been only one instance an over population, STATE PARKS! Indiana is a virtual buffet, plenty of space and cover for deer. Who doesn't want them, landowners...

If it wasn't political(not insurance, they get a bum rap) our biologist would not be managing deer as we are today.

I'll leave the Joe Blow comment alone.........LOL.

I count myself very fortunate that deer numbers on the properties I hunt in Parke, Monroe and Jackson counties are pretty high. Parke county certainly needs a higher harvest in my area. My son, brother and I will try to take 2 more does this weekend or during the special antlerless hunt. I am thankful for the extra opportunities.

It will b very interesting to see the harvest numbers in a couple months.

I saw about the same number of deer I have seen the last 5 or so years. Not as many as 15 or so years ago. No there is not an "over abundance" of deer. The state and most landowners do not want that. There probably never will be, so now that you will have to actually hunt for deer, I guess it would be a good time to learn how to do it (not you personally, but the guys complainting because they are only seeig 3-5 deer per set rather than the 20 they used to see).

Ohio, huh? I thought that was the promise land.

Great the guys can't hunt crowd joined in. I'm not talking about complaining or seeing 3-5 deer per set, that number is laughable. Two guyts I referenced
have a wall full of deer. One saw deer on five sits this year. That hunter hunts almost daily on different properties. Another saw 3 deer all year. On the best property I ever hunted 10 years ago we would drive 1 mile spotlighting and see over 100 deer in the fields from Sept to Dec, now we are lucky to see one. Now tell me a newbie being introduced to the sport would enjoy those situations. I wouldn't but I'm a diehard guy that would stick it out not sure a new guy would.
I'm not saying every area is down, heck some of my areas are not but I do believe that is the trend and I'm not nieve enough to think it couldn't spread to my good hunting areas.

I just hope the ones that are seeing fewer numbers offer up there opinions. In the end it won't effect me much ill just move areas or states for that matter but I don't think everyone has the bug as bad as me.

As for Ohio, I killed my buck in less than an hour of hunting this year but it does appear almost all areas are down in numbers statewide. Their management is still great for big bucks though.

Great the guys can't hunt crowd joined in. I'm not talking about complaining or seeing 3-5 deer per set, that number is laughable. Two guyts I referenced
have a wall full of deer. One saw deer on five sits this year. That hunter hunts almost daily on different properties. Another saw 3 deer all year. On the best property I ever hunted 10 years ago we would drive 1 mile spotlighting and see over 100 deer in the fields from Sept to Dec, now we are lucky to see one. Now tell me a newbie being introduced to the sport would enjoy those situations. I wouldn't but I'm a diehard guy that would stick it out not sure a new guy would.
I'm not saying every area is down, heck some of my areas are not but I do believe that is the trend and I'm not nieve enough to think it couldn't spread to my good hunting areas.

I just hope the ones that are seeing fewer numbers offer up there opinions. In the end it won't effect me much ill just move areas or states for that matter but I don't think everyone has the bug as bad as me.

As for Ohio, I killed my buck in less than an hour of hunting this year but it does appear almost all areas are down in numbers statewide. Their management is still great for big bucks though.

I have to agree with Cody on all of his observations and input. In no way am I complaining or concerned that I am no longer seeing 20 year on an average day, I am concerned when I average seeing deer on about 1 in 6 sits on stand! I have contacted my local DNR with my concerns and would encourage anyone who is experiencing the same difficulties to do the same. Most likely a blind eye will be turned in your direction but at least voice your thoughts and concerns.

I know that numbers are down on both of my personal properties. But im starting. My own personal management program.

Numbers were down on other properties i hunt as well. Even the land owners seem a little perplexed about it. EHD did play a role for sure

Maybe my expectations are lower. I have had several sits, even in Parke County, where I have seen nothing. To me that doesn't mean the deer aren't there. I can tell they are simply by the sign. The days where I have seen several deer (never 20) about equaled the days where I have seen none.

I know the drought radically changed deer movement in the places I hunt the most. It took me several hunts to figure out what they were doing different. In fact, they had almost flip-flopped movement patterns. Once I realized I was probably hunting the wrong winds for the spots, I started seeing more. To me that's part of the puzzle and part of the fun.

Things change all the time and unless you are very fortunate, deer don't follow the exact pattern every day.

I remember the days when a single sighting would bring folks to your house to hear the story.... I'm 60 and still hunting!

Today if young people don't see a dozen deer, "there aint no deer left".

BINGO..... "Truer Words Were Never Spoken"

I'm not saying there are no deer. I'm saying I'd rather hunt with today's or early 2000s totals rather than that of the 50s, 60s and 70s.

I give up. If hunters can't even agree they'd like to see deer while hunting I don't suppose anybody else making the legislation will give a ****.

Happy Hunting to everybody.

EXACTLY! 100% agree. Although at 34 years old, am I a "young" one still? LOL.

@CQ my comments weren't directed at you. Just happened to be your post I chimed in on.

Cody,

Don't give up. Nobody's fighting with you. Just sharing a conversation.

My opinion can be summed up like this. I don't believe there are significantly fewer deer this year than last year. It is human nature to see the past through rose-colored glasses. We remember the days we saw 20 deer a lot more clearly than the days we saw none. When we measure the present against the past, we always think about the good old days and wonder what happened.

I am sure there are areas where deer populations fluctuate. And there are certainly fewer deer in areas where overpopulation was a problem in the past. That is why we started shooting does.

We have a great, sustainable population of deer here in Indiana. You will have good years and bad years but, in the end, we are pretty fortunate.

Harvest numbers are the data that is used to evaluate trends. If these trends indicate overharvest, then limits should and will be adjusted. Trends are not year over year. They are longer than that. And they are not 5% one way or another. There are just too many variable to allow those type of fluctuations to affect policy.

And regardless of our opinions as hunters, there are many stakeholders here and policy makers have to look at them all. Each one has it's goals and data and the juggling act that politicians perform is never as simple as biology.

I`m siding with Cody as it pertains to my hunting area. I have owned my 80 acres for 20 years now and therefore I have somewhat of a history to relate to. I have seen a general decline in the deer numbers on my property over the last several years despite property improvements such as foodplots and habitat improvement.It is my opinion that disease and years of liberal doe permits have made this happen.

I am siding with cody also. I too have seen a major decline in deer numbers since 2007. I have hunted for 30 years and the last 5 years have been the least amount of sightings ever for me. I usually see 1 deer for every 6 or 7 sits. I went 11 times in a row without seeing a deer. I too have food plots water holes thick brush and the deer simply are not around. I also hunt several different areas of the county and it is the same result. I know alot of you guys on here think all I do is gripe about not seeing any deer but when a person puts in all that time and effort on stands, foodplots and everything else i do for deer hunting and then don't see much it is disheartening. They always say take a kid hunting, well if I took a kid hunting thye would lose interst in no time cause they would not see anything.

Yep.....

Unless you own a fairly large piece of property with very good habitat, the culture of your surrounding neighbors is critical in regard to how many deer will survive from one year to the next.

The DNR can and does control the herd with doe permits. If you think the herd is low in your area then lobby them for less permits.

Control the number of doe that get killed on your property to your quoto. Stop killing big older doe that have twins and triplets.

I started this two years ago and the deer numbers on my property have rebounded nicely.

Remember, just because the bonus anterless deer permits are high doesnt mean you have to kill that many. h.h.

I agree with Cody also. This is my 40th year of deer hunting around here and like others I have developed a farm with habitat for deer hunting in mind. Numbers are way down over the last several years due to heavy doe killing, and down worse this year due to EHD in the area.

My problem as mentioned above is hunters on the neighbors places shoot everything that moves, as many does as they can. This late kill em all season will hammer them worse and sure isn't needed in this county. I'd like to see Cass county go back to (1) bonus tag.

I too remember those days,back in the 60's.Unfortunately we have come the full circle.It's easy to say just go to the meetings and complain,but when you look at numbers like the first day of the first hunt at VSP,in miserable cold weather,295 hunters killed almost 600 deer,and this year with great weather less than 40 killed the last day,with the same hunter allotment,I have to wonder why biologist need our input-just look at the numbers.

Very good post. Cody you have some legitimate concerns and I imagine you are being proactive in your approach, keep on it. When Noble county was a 2 bonus and I felt it needed to be more from what my property, as well as our township was indicating, I sent some emails. I don't think I sent more than 3, but I felt that I needed to learn more so I arranged a meeting with my district biologist to walk my property, share some numbers with him. Part of it was to inquire about depredation permits, whether they were warranted or not. I spent more time "on the ground" with farmers, neighbors etc to see if I was off base, we are now an 8. Funny, but when I first hunted in '74-75 it was a big deal to see a TRACK on my land, then 4 years later, maybe see 1-2 deer all season and I kept right on hunting too, like many others here. Took me 10 years to kill a deer, I had 3 misses, probably so freaked out to actually see one close enough to kill. I am not diminishing your concerns in anyway, just adding to the "remember when" vein. As for all the changes, well I have hung back because I will continue to hunt as my property supports, very simple. I posted on another thread that I welcome more oppurtunity, not because I don't think there is enough, but because I thought it would be fun to hunt in mid-September, why, not sure because more negatives like bugs, can't let a deer hang etc., maybe it is as simple as more green, lighter clothing, it was something other than killing deer. Overall, I cannot begin to comprehend all the "stuff" that goes on surrounding rule changes etc., even if I may not tend to agree with someones' views, I trust that they have wildlifes'best interest in mind. I really don't get all worked up about Indianas' game laws, because it is easier to develope, maintain personal passion within myself and apply it to my land and hopefully it catches on to others' if it is the correct path for them. It doesn't mean I am apathetic or frustrated, what good would either of those two do, what does good is taking personal responsibility towards our own hunting and when that is done one is truly free to hunt.

Solo, I understand your approach and most others. I don't want to come across as complaining. I'm fortunate to have a lease where most in the area have similar views. I do get frustrated on my dads place though. It is in pike county where ehd hit several years ago. It drilled the population. We expressed concern several times with the dnr but they basically ignored us. Anyway I like to b able to hunt with him there but no longer feel it can withstand any kills there. I don't mind hunting hard and not seeing deer but flat out knowing I'm not going to shoot one if it would present itself is not a possibility right now with a young family and time restraints. It would be great if all hunters were like most on here and managed each property as appropriate, unfortunately most hunters don't. I won't give up, it is just frustrating hearing from some that have no idea about certain areas because they hunt their own little piece of dirt. Again I don't presume every area is seeing major declines in numbers but I do know several areas that are and I most would like to inform others that these areas are out there and could continue to grow if a close eye isn't kept on the resource.

There are plenty of deer out there. I'm only going to use my examples. I study and hunt for property as much as deer. I find and finally after 18 no thanks I get one. I go in kill a couple deer doe buck whatever next year which I practice to always go early to speak face to face with land owner is I guess there are deer here. My grandson or son or relative are hunting now so. I'm sorry. I get my stands and gone. Even had stands set within yards of mine same year. The state is full ask your neighbor who hit one in there car in April. Because people were mushroom hunting and never had a clue they jumped it. Just my take

Thanks, that clears everything up. My mistake.

Great response Cody, I hadn't blown coffee through my nose in a long time!

LOL!!!!!!!!

Whoa, not so fast Cody. I suggest you pound a quick six pack of beer and several shots of Jack Daniels and read that post again. Maybe you'll see the message hidden within. As for me, I like it just the way it is!

Haha, yeah I got several different messages out of that one.

Bingo!! It's just laughable (or insert your own adjective) how many hunters complain about not seeing any deer yet shoot the first 1,2,3, etc. that pass by them in the fall.

When people hunt with a specific herd management goal "every" property in a given area will improve. The biggest roadblock to hunters is ..... themselves! Hunters are unwilling to change! They(you and I) refuse to move to where deer are. EHD...... no problem "I" continue to hunt that county. Too many antlerless permits...... I still hunt......... it goes on and on.

When you continue to do the same thing and expect a different result......... insanity!

I would agree JB to a large degree on your comment but I do think one goofy landowner or neighbor can really create issues, again depending on what area of the state and the available habitat in that area. In true farm county, one of our neighbors called tonight following up on his previous request to coyote hunt the farm. He said he and his son counted 19 antlerless deer go into our small south woodlot at about 4:30 tonight from a neighbors woods with another group standing in our field just outside the woodlot. We had a "new" hunter and his family start hunting a neighbors property this year and they are the type of folks shoot everything that moves. So, our farm has only been hunted one day, for one hour since opening weekend of firearms season with no deer taken, except an archery doe, unless poached. Another neighbor counted almost 50 the other day. Steve, the guy who is going to hunt and trap coyotes, knows no one is allowed on the property until after deer season is over to enable the deer to have a safe place without the presence or pressure from other hunters or people. It's a difficult situation because everybody differs in their philosophy and frankly most guys who deer hunt are more interested in shooting then managing or conservation.

This is probably true for the majority but not the entirety. I know since my Dad's place has been hit by EHD we haven't take an antlerless deer in 6 years. Yet the poplulation hasn't rebounded. The neighbors have taken care of that. As they fall in the group you mention. We'd love to manage that area and be able to hunt it more often but that opportunity no longer exists there.

I hunt 3 states and several different counties so I have moved and changed the way I do things. To tell everyone that is all they need to do is impractical in my opinion. Quite frankly it can be rather expensive and a huge consumption of time. IMO not many who deer hunt can offer that type of investment.

Many guys who would like to manage the resource and their hunting opportunity will have to rely on the direction of those proposing legislation. It shouldn't be too much to ask to expect those who are paid to monitor the resource to do just that.

For me, the folks who call and "give me scouting or input reports" crack me up. Now some are fellow hunters who are keeping me up to date so to speak, but others are folks who should mind their own business because I know what they are implying. Hunters are our own worst enemy, found out recently that the landowner across the road from me eliminated ALL hunting priviledges, why? Too many dang problems with the guys hunting his property, which I can understand. I believe there was less hunting this year on the adjacent properties, which is helpful to me in less pressure, yet the population will increase due to a lack of herd reduction. I do not rely on anyone to decide what is the best direction for my property, I get and ask for input and then abide by game limits set by the state and the results have been favorable, to me it seems simple.