Seen a couple this year. Not many fawns overall but the ones I'm seeing seem real late. This pic is from yesterday.

Yea I agree but I haven't seen one that small but have some that are losing them but can still see the spots

While out for a run the other day, I saw one in town by the middle school track, it walked up to me and stopped at about 10 yds and we talked for a few minutes... I tried to explain the in's and outs of what it means in being a wild deer.... I dont think it took it to heart....typical kid ....

Another example. Even smaller.

first picture looks like a yearling doe, that is likely why the fawns are late.

Glad you posted those pics Cody. Been telling people about this for years. Should not be happening, but as long as this state continues to disrupt the primary rut with the general firearms season, it will continue.

Bucks should not still be tending does in February and March, bad for the adult deer and bad for the fawns, but it is reality.

Back around 1980 going into a late afternoon hunt the first week in nov I jumped up a doe and a fawn. As they ran off the fawn tried going thru about 6" grid fence and got its head stuck and started bawling,had to pulled her head out to release her to let her run off.

I thought to myself then that was very odd for the fawn to still have spots.
Sure wish I would of had a trail cam back then. Come to think of it I dont think they had trail cams then. Dang Im getting old.

But as of late during this cool down my wife and I go for drives over by the airport to look at all the deer over there. We both have noticed several fawns that the spots are just fading away. Making me think about the story told above.

So if gun hunting wasn't allowed then this wouldn't happen then, right?

What about bow hunting?... Wouldn't that have an impact as well since you can use a bow during the rut?... I would think so...

So wouldn't it make sense to ban ALL hunting during the month of November to alleviate this problem?

From an Outdoorlife post...

"As deer hunter/managers, what interests us most is fawn outliers; fawns that hit the ground in early April or as late as August. These fawns are at a marked disadvantage as far as survival goes at least in the northern most latitudes. Early drops (and their mothers) are subject to severe weather conditions and late drops enter winter as sub-adults with insufficient body mass to survive a hard winter.

Poor management can lead to late-season births. High doe-to-buck ratios (5 does or more per buck), overpopulation, and a lack of mature experienced breeding bucks in the herd can result in a prolonged rut stretching over many months
Happily, Mother Nature has had thousands of years to decide when fawns are best brought into the world and does a good job of delivering the goods. Last year, 95% of the country had a biological rut which peaked somewhere around Nov. 15th. In most parts of whitetail country, a fawn born June 1 enters an almost perfect world as far as survival goes."


When you aren't a fan, it's easy to single out the gun season as the reason for all the deer world's woes. Yet, it's obvious that there are many reasons for fawns being born both early and late.

I didn't mean to start a big argument I just wanted to bring some attention to the guys that say they will survive no problem once season starts. I don't think that is always the case. The odd part about these pics is they are becoming more regular on my cams and I'm not sure why. These two properties are two hours apart. I would rate both properties as being low on deer density with one really low and I tend to see more bucks than does on both properties. Most of the time I thought the excuse for why they were born late were too many does in the area or messed up ratios. Seems kind of odd.

I believe its very easy to see if you shoot a doe that have fawn/fawns with spots the fawn's life maybe short lived.....Not sure who would dispute that!

People say all the time fawns are ready to survive by the time archery season starts. I guess they would be the ones to dispute it.

With spots on them?? Guess I missed those comments!

Brew, I'm not gonna argue with you as I don't care. Maybe Gary will start a thread and you guys can bicker. Just posting what I considered interesting pics.

Cody, no one trying to argue, I was just making points.... Sorry it didn't align with your Ideas/comments...first I have heard of such comments!

And yes them pics are interesting for this time of year.

Well you got me to bite. Every forum I've ever been to there have been guys that say definitively fawns are 100% self sufficient by the time season starts. Refer to the Doe/offspring thread here and post #3. Not all fawns are self sufficient by season. That is what I meant and I think most here would see that is what I meant. You would rather pick apart any comment I make then add to the conversation. I'm not sure what constructive comment you made by any of your comments on this thread and that seems to be a consistent trend but if you feel like they are... so be it.

I said I wasn't gonna post here anymore for these type of reasons. I didn't see any way this thread could start any type of arguing. I try to offer constructive views or even advance notice on deals etc that I've found to this forum. But responses like yours don't make it fun for guys like me to post anything. Enjoy your day.

My buddies son passed a doe last night that had a little one that was still red and pure white spots the thing was the size of the other fawns were back in June I never seen one that small this late before . very odd I wish I knew why

Thanks Nick. Glad you can confirm what I was seeing as well.

Brew, you pmed me. Your inbox is full.

Sorry Cody. Wasn't trying to draw you into a mess.
Still glad you posted those photos.

We bombard the woods during the peak of the rut...sometimes before the peak with hundreds of thousands of hunters and kill tens of thousands of bucks over the course of a couple days.

Yes, estrous does do not get bred. They end up going through multiple estrous cycles over several months. Bucks and does end up rutting during winter months...when they should be conserving energy. Come spring, those deer have alot of catching up to do...just to get their bodies back in decent condition.

Late fawns are the product...and those deer create a snowball affect. The yearling doe, born a couple months later than nature intended, is not going to cycle on time either....and if bred, will produce another late born fawn of her own the following summer.

Unfortunately, while it is not rocket science, some will never get it (or at least admit it). Our gun season timing is only off (early) by a week, sometimes two...but God forbid we ever change that....and yes, while not really necessary, I would jump on a complete shutdown during that timeframe if that's what it takes to get people on board.

No problem Paul. Any luck with those elk? Feel free to pm if you'd like.

You are convinced that you are correct, I think there are a multitude of reasons why there are late fawn births.

And while we could debate this for days, in the end we would likely never agree on much so why bother?

You enjoy bow season, I'll enjoy bow AND gun season...

Have a nice evening.

Yeah, I know...if YOU can't cut and paste it from the pages of Outdoor Life...or some other cheap magazine, it must not be true.

This isn't a bow versus gun...it is conservation.

Yeah Cody....elk trip was good.

Check out Bowsite for the photo story.

http://forums.bowsite.com/tf/regional/thread.cfm?threadid=224685&MESSAGES=29&state=In

I would be for a season structure like Iowa.

Early muzzleloader and late firearms season outside the rut. I don't get why they don't allow bowhunting during the short firearms season though.

https://www.iowadnr.gov/Portals/idnr/uploads/Hunting/huntingregs_card.pdf

Paul, Awesome summary and helluva bull. Congrats! One of my dreams I hope to accomplish someday. Was it a solo adventure?

PAV,

I pm'ed you.....

Thanks Cody. Yeah, all by my lonesome up there. Hunting solo in the mountains is alot of fun. Getting a bull elk off the mountain solo...not so much!