I guess I should clarify for the mentally challenged....

replace my use of the word weapon with firearm

I don't think the gun season should be shortened because of the hpr. We already get the shaft every year because we have to hunt in one of the nastiest months of the year. November weather sucks. It seems every year we have to put up with the cold, rain, high wind or some other act of God. Out of the 16 days of gun season we get maybe 8-10 good weather days if we're lucky. The season is short enough already.

It would shock me if Indiana's regular firearm season ever gets shortened from the 2 week, 3 weekend season. Doe kill is what affects population. That's the tool that managers will use if policy changes are needed to back off the harvest.

"the gun season is short enough already"...bull crap !...it is to long...gun season/ML season/late season gun antlerless, 30+ days of some type of gun....way to much gun for me...... Indiana could be a much better deer state, but not with the dam DNR we have....

:rolleyes: .....but the 100 plus days of "ARCHERY" is fine!!!

Its always about the man with the "GUN" for some... :rolleyes:

SMH...

I think you kinda missed the point of RugerMan's post... But just because it is more gun for your taste doesn't mean it is for others... How many people do you know that hunt from the first day of gun season all the way to the end every day? ... MY guess is probably zero... I don't and I don't know of any others who do... My season ended the day gun season went out... I think I only hunted 7 of the 16 days because of the weather

My guess is that the majority of gun hunters probably only hunt at most less than 10 days that some sort of gun can be used and with most only hunting the weekends...

I have said it before and I will reiterate it again, that I would combine both gun and muzzy seasons into one season because if I can use a muzzy in gun season, then I believe muzzleloaders do not need their own season...

Oh and like Delany pointed out... blaming the DNR is both ridiculous and shortsighted... DNR does not make you or anyone else pull the trigger or release on a bow...

The DNR does not make laws or regs they make suggestions to the NRC same as us the HPR came from public comment from us not the dnr

That's not entirely true. Only a very small percentage of deer hunters participate in the public input process and spend time on forums such as this one. The vast majority glean their information from the pages of the hunting regulations....published by the DNR.

In the past few years, we have added seasons and season lengths, added weapon choices and bundle licensing. Alot of people are going to perceive that as too many deer running around. If the DNR proposes or supports a proposal, they should definitely be held accountable.

Yes, ultimately, it is up to the guy that pulls the trigger....but if THAT was the cure all answer, we wouldn't need hunting seasons or tag quotas at all...now would we?

If you leave deer management to the "guy that pulls the trigger" ...the deer herd is doomed....to many dont have the restraint not to pull the trigger.... to many will kill the last deer in a woodlot/property then complain about not seeing any deer the nest year...cant control your neighbor......not only does it happen here in this state, but in many other states....once the centerfire crap kicks in, we'll just have to wait and we will see what the kill's are for the first several years....I say it goes up for a few years, then drops, bad....we will see.....

When pcrs were being debated the same thing was said. What happened?


According to the IDNR harvest data....

In 2008, shotguns accounted for 53% of total harvest and pcrs accounted for 1% for a total of 54%.

In 2013, shotguns accounted for 37% of total harvest and pcrs account for 15% for a total of 52%.

Virtually the same total percentage of the harvest.....

And while there is no way to know what will happen if hprs are allowed, based on this history, I would imagine the change will consist mostly of hunters trading one firearm for another.

But we'll obviously need the data to confirm that.

We will wait and see.....I hope I'm wrong ...our herd has dwindled in many areas....I just dont see this being a good thing....sure it will make many happy as it makes it "easier" to kill deer...like Ive said I love rifle hunting, just not in this state....except for Yotes and woodchucks... ;0) ......

While there is certainly an aspect of accountability related to the DNRs role, it might be relevant to remember that their role is more directed at biological aspects first and then the social aspects thereafter. Is the Indiana deer herd in peril biologically, I don't think so. So, I think the DNR gets a thumbs up in regard to their primary role. In regard to influencing the trigger pull, not the DNRs role in my opinion, except through bag limits which they have managed reasonably well considering the annual harvest numbers are still pretty strong and general hunter dissatisfaction appears to still be low enough that there is no uprising by deer hunters.

It is not the DNRs job to manage social changes in how sportsmen wish to pursue deer and harvest deer. They do a good job of trying to maintain done sense of ethics and safety in the field but again, where is it stated that a government agency should establish ethics. Arguably this should be an outcome of sportsmen and the general publics will as long as it's done in a safe manner. The DNR manages the resource, not the hunter, and it just hasn't been shown that the resource is in trouble, in my opinion. Do I like many aspects of the deer herd situation, no. But pointing a finger at the DNR is largely wrong and incorrect. IF this deer herd ever becomes biologically threatened I believe the DNR will step up and save the deer herd because generally speaking, I don't think the deer hunters will.

It's pretty easy to get within 100 yards of a deer. I'm not sure how having a rifle in my hand v. a shotgun will make it easier. Still a dead deer. And I'm still going to kill the same max number of deer.

The hacks who can't kill deer regularly now are still going to not kill the same number of deer they don't kill now. [Is that a double negative ]

I hate the idea of HPR here. Hate it. But, whatever. We don't need them. It won't change the harvest one bit. But my Lord will it be scary knowing a guy in the woodlot next to me has a bullet that can travel MILES and can't see me a couple hundred feet away. Slugs are heavy. Regardless of velocity they come out of the barrel "Looking and seeking" the ground. They hit and tumble. HPR'S... Dude they can ricochet off something and wind up in a farmers bedroom window on the other side of the road. Most places they're legal...are in mountains. There ain't nobody around! They go a half mile and hit a mountain. Not here. Like I said...Whatever.

Illinois hunters kill as many deer in 5 days of gun season "Outside of the rut" as we do in 2 weeks IN the rut. The state is quite comparable to ours in size. I highly doubt it's our gun season that's causing us problems. The vast majority of gun killed deer happens in the first few days. The rest of it is nothing more than opportunity. The numbers aren't staggering.
Illinois also allows 2 bucks. They still have people jumping over fences to hunt there.

My point? People in Illinois as well as Iowa and Kansas...don't shoot small bucks. We do. We also rape the doe population...by choice.

PAV makes a great point, that we must have SOME regulations.

I can apply the same theory of the surrounding states to boating and fishing. Did you guys know that Indiana has for years been the most "Boat crazy" state in the nation per capita? Our lakes are FULL of boats with very little water. I boat at Dale Hollow lake in Tennessee and I'm tellin ya if it ain't a holiday weekend, you have the whole lake to yourself. Not here. I go there to boat just like many go to the aforementioned states to hunt.
Hoosiers LOVE the outdoors!

HS Strut - HPR bullets readily fragment they don't ricochet nearly as bad as Slugs which maintain their mass. Thats just a simple fact of Physics.

Didn't say what my opinion was I simply corrected your statement.

Classic scare tactic...Unless you are shooting at the sky HPR's WILL NOT go for miles... Even then, you have to have the right conditions for a bullet to travel that far... :rolleyes:


That just tells me that either Illinois hunters are shooting everything in sight because they have only 5 days to do it in or the 11 extra days we have are not having any impact on the herd and their state is a lot bigger then ours...

And I don't care what state you are hunting in but hunters in other states shoot large bucks, small bucks, and shoot their does up too like they do in Indiana and they complain on their forums about their herds like people do here... :rolleyes:

I don't care WHAT you guys use to take a deer. I'm not trying to "Scare" anybody.

Try this physics test:

Go out to Atterbury and hang out a couple hundred yards or more behind the shooting range...over by the water tower. I used to pheasant hunt area 12 a lot. Every 15-20 minutes, you'll hear a round ricochet through the air making that high pitched "whirling" sound. I promise you that ain't a deer slug. It'll make your hair curl son. It's probably a round skipping off the top of a frame or something. It ain't a deer slug because it would've shattered or bent whatever it hit and wound up in the dirt...not several hundred yards away in a pheasant hunt.

I think Delaney used to pheasant hunt in that area? He might have heard these rounds as well.

Also, every once in a while on the news you'll see where somebody found bullet holes in their house. Through the siding and across the room through another wall. Then, you'll find out some idiot was shooting a rifle across a cornfield several hundred yards away and wasn't certain of what was beyond their target.
Let me know next time you see this happen with a shotgun slug.

Go out in a plowed field and set up a target a hundred yards away. Shoot ten slugs at it and ten 30.06 rounds at it. Bet you can find where the slugs hit the ground right behind it a little ways. The ground will look like hogs were rootin back there. Those 06's will be nowhere around.

Bryan, go to a check station or meat locker around here...you'll see piles of 1 1/2 bucks. We kill a ton of big ones here as well, and our culture IS changing for the better. But we still slaughter young bucks.

Not in Illinois and Iowa. You'll see teenagers talking about passing up 130" deer constantly. It's a completely different culture.
Not saying I want that here...they have tons of problems with rich people buying up and leasing land. I hate that. Just saying it's different.

In regard to Atterbury, I will say that folks who worked down there used to suggest staying way clear of the area behind the shooting range, most of which was blocked off anyhow.

Well "son" I've done it (more than once, too)... Use to sit behind there all the time when I hunted at Atterbury....

I've been to check stations and meat lockers so I have seen it all... I work with a guy who would shoot a fawn in a nanosecond and not care one bit... So yes it is a cultural thing but those same people would kill that deer with 5 days or 16 days of hunting... They are so scared of not getting anything it clouds their judgment...

I think a lot has to do with the hunters out there that have to purchase licenses every year want something to show for their investment... No one wants to eat tag soup but with a LTL I don't care if I get one or not, I'm not out much of anything... I'm 2 years now without a deer but have the satisfaction of hoping that buck will be bigger next year and that does will hopefully produce twins that make it and increase the herd where I hunt...

When I see little deer hanging there ready to be butchered I think to myself what I waste... Spend that kind of money for a little meat... I don't tell others how to hunt, but I don't want to hear them complain about not seeing deer or a big deer because they feel the need to blast everything in sight...

Well the Bryan, You and I are on the same page. I didn't kill a deer last year and it looks like I won't this year either. I too have a LTL.

I don't care what anybody kills. I don't care what they kill it with. None of my business.

I personally will drop a fawn in a heartbeat as long as it isn't a button buck. My preference. LTL, no cost to me, easier drag. To me, there's no macho rating for taking a 2 yr old doe as opposed to the fawn standing next to it.

I do think as a whole, we've taken too many does in the last few years. I feel like EHD has worsened the situation where I hunt, so since my deer sightings are way down, I'm really not upset about not killing a doe. I'm kinda looking for something with about 130" of bone on it's head. I love taking does and love eating them. But I'm just not seeing many. Hardly any shots on opening day of firearms tells me we better lay off a little regardless of what the DNR says.

I brought up Illinois because I personally believe the gun season thing is a little overstated on here. If you FILL every woods in the state on July 4th, you will kill a ton of deer regardless of the rut. That's what happens on the firearm opener here and in our surrounding states. The woods are stuffed with hunters. Deer get smart real quick, hence the drop off as the week goes on. I just get sick of hearing about moving or shortening the gun season.

It's kind of funny....... people are saying they are seeing way less deer in general, yet they want centerfire rifles?

Think about it folks...... do you want a tool to take deer with at a longer range? What makes the experience, dead deer or hunting?

Delaney and others have the correct view....... it aint about conservation or the deer ......it is about "me"!

When you say a dead deer is a dead deer and it doesn't care what it was killed by. Answer me this..... Where are you each year when IDNR issues out of season permits by the thousands and fawns die by starvation? Ahh again the deer doesn't care how it died and neither do we hunters.......

I think that most that feel that way is if they shoot a deer at 100 yrds with a muzzleloader, shotgun, or a rifle what is the difference?

The end result is the same... Now if you take it beyond 200 yards, then yes you have a valid point...

As to your last point... It doesn't make any sense so you might want to clarify that...

Thinking he may be talking about depredation permits.

How can they issue depredation permits if there aren't NO Deer... something DONT add up!!!

I believe I read where only hollow point bullets will be allowed with the hpr, no full metal jacket bullets will be allowed. That should cut down on the ricochets. I've heard many slugs ricochet.

I'm for the hpr, not because of the distance it will allow me to shoot but because of the accuracy and knock down power and dang my .243 is a beauty. Pure romance.

Will the hpr hurt the deer population in Indiana? I highly doubt it. I plan to still take only one deer next year if I'm lucky. If we all shot monster bucks every year what would we have to brag about?

Hope this guy doesn't hunt here because he would hurt the population... LOL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vc5dKqoFtKk

I promise to only hurt one deer next year.

Couldn't have said it better Dale! I do NOT want to give up my time in the field because a few want to make it easy for themselves! And YES the weapons use has ALL the impact in the world on the herd Trapper Dave!!!

Who the heck ever said anything about giving up days in the field? I really do not understand what you are getting at there.

The less time it takes to reach harvest goals the shorter the season With Her that goal will be reached sooner so seasons will be shortened

i dont see it and i bet bet the numbers prove my point if they are allowed.

harvest will stay about the same. nobody will kill more deer than they do now. sky wont fall. herd wont vanish.


really doesnt matter to me. Im not gonna buy a centerfire. I prefer my muzzleloaders and bows.

nah, just fewer people afield after day one if youre right

The last data I read about depredation permits states...

Deer Damage Control Permits. —A total of 456 deer permits were issued in 2012, nearly
identical to the 460 issued in 2011. Under this program, 6,152 deer were authorized to be taken.
This was a 0.5% increase from the 6,124 deer in 2011. Of the authorized deer for 2012, 2,359 deer
were reported harvested (Table 6) for a success rate of 38%. The number of deer harvested in 2012
increased by 1 deer from 2011 under the deer damage permit program; harvest has increased 84%
from the 1,282 deer harvested in 2003. Of the 2,359 deer harvested, 269 were reported as adult
male (11%), 223 were reported as button bucks (9%), and 1,867 were reported as female (79%).

Here's a link to that report.

http://www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/files/fw-MR_1051_Deer_Damage_2013.pdf

While the overall numbers of deer don't appear to be that high (assuming the numbers are accurate), Jb makes a good point about the number of fawns that likely won't survive after their mothers are killed.

Throbak,

We don't work on a quota system here. There is no number goal. That works when you have a good population estimate like when you manage a military base. But we manage on harvest trends and some ambiguous other factors. If harvest trends show appreciable declines and/or those other factors indicate the resource is suffering, then we may see reduction in bonus antlerless allotments for counties. But I have never heard a whisper of reducing hunting days. And it's doubtful I ever will.

We will see I'll still get my 4 or 5 I just won't hunt the weather like I do now I don't even think about deer hunting till the weather is such I can hang them and butcher as I want not because of heat

Let me clarify in one sentence...............


People are seeing less deer, yet, they want a longer range tool in which to kill those same deer seen.


Gotta love the "I" want mine........

Let me re-clarify the clarify

People are seeing less deer, so they want a more efficient long range tool in which to kill 'more' of those same deer seen.....(fixed) ;0)

Yep that.