If the harvest numbers continue to level out and the majority of county harvest numbers do the same, then @ some point one would have to assume that the herd numbers are also fairly steady.

If the bottom drops out of the harvest @ some point, then I would agree with your premise. But to this point that hasn't happened.

-Only the live does have offspring-kill 3 does= 9 less deer in one year.

What about the ones that don't get shot?
looks like that might just be a addition!

Sorta like adding more "cans" to the fridge

Those that are not killed certainly do add-it's just that the more you kill,the less"can stockers" you have each year.

As long as people insist on killing a BIG ole Doe ,,The population will drop .It takes a fawn on average 3 years to be able to raise twins ,So the way I look at it you get December Doe Fawns And button bucks to eat ( there pretty good sized now) your only taking excess and And population never Drops by leaving the BIG ole Does alone you will have 2 more next December

If the can anology really made sense, you'd have no cans left eventually.....we've had a steady harvest of over 120,000 deer for many years. So apparently the herd isn't being wiped out as some would claim. Your theory proves this.

Maybe we started with a case of cans and now we're down to seven or five cans left. That's the problem, we don't really know where we started and we don't know how many we have left. All we know is it appears to many thirsty hunters that the fridge is looking emptier every year.

Well said!

This is what worries me.As I understand there was once thought to be an endless supply of bison.I guess by your anology there is,as there are still some left.

We are in Zero danger of wiping out the deer herd in Indiana. Guys are seeing fewer deer than in the past. Harvest seems to be down slightly. Sky is not falling

Want to help the deer herd this year? Skip the rest of deer season (particularly the extra antlerless season) and go kill every coyote you can by any legal means

Done and done!

Here is some data since 2000. Total harvests are actually still trending "up" since 2000, and pretty much flat since 2004. To me, the data looks like the herd is pretty stable.

The biggest problem is the difference from North to South. In Harrison County we continue to be the number one county in the state and the other areas around here have bounced back. The Northern half is struggling with access and loss of habitat due to farming practice changes.

great point. One size fits all (counties) management mentality is not what we need..

Isn't that why each county has its own quota number? What kind of system would you like to see in place of the quota system?

I've looked @ several northern county harvest numbers and while I'm sure there are some counties that are down, the numbers in the vast majority that I've looked @ seem to be more in line with the harvest data from several years ago.

Wasn't that the point of herd reduction?

When you consider other factors such as habitat loss and lack of access what would hunters expect the IDNR, landowners and other hunters to do?

Kind of what I was wondering too.

Even if you made every county in the Northern half of the state a zero on the bonus antlerless quota system residents in any county in the state can still harvest 3 antlerless and one antlered deer a year, just by purchasing a bow tag, crossbow tag, firearms tag and muzzleloader tag.

So what's the solution? Make certain counties a "no antlerless harvest" zone? Rework the license structure to limit licences to one antlered and one antlerless deer for the Northern half of the state?

IMO, we've had way too many rule changes to justify a harvest trend as valid data.

There are just too many variables to consider. For instance, there was a dip in the harvest in 2014 followed by a jump in 2015. Couldn't have had much worse weather during the 2014 firearms season....and couldn't have had much better weather during the same time frame in 2015.

It is what it is....

If you look @ the harvest reports from 2012-2015, the percentage of the total harvest attributed to the general firearms season has held pretty steady (with an average of 55% of total yearly harvest) regardless of weather.

2009 top ten:
The counties with the highest harvests were
Steuben, Kosciusko, Switzerland, Noble, Franklin, Dearborn, Marshall, Parke, Harrison, and Washington.

2015 top ten:
The ten counties with the greatest harvests were, in descending order, Harrison, Washington, Franklin, Switzerland, Noble, Dearborn, Steuben, Lawrence, Parke, and Crawford.

2009 5 of top 10 were north now 3 of top 10 are north.

During that time Kosciusko went from 3652 deer harvested to 2224.

My thoughts exactly. More tags, added weaponry, that should lead to larger harvest.

Indiana dude My thoughts exactly. More tags, added weaponry, that should lead to larger harvest.


What happened when new "weaponry" was added is that the harvest shifted from one piece of equipment to another.

For example...The first number (listed by equipment type) is the percentage of total harvest from 2011 for each type of equipment used. The second number (listed by equipment type) is the percentage of total harvest from 2015 for each type of equipment used.



Bows 21% 16%
Shotgun 42% 35%
ML 26% 20%
handgun 1% 1%
Rifle 9% 19%
x-bow 1% 10%

BTW, the total harvest from 2011 was 129,000 and from 2015 124,000.

Yes I get that. I'm just saying let's see how the harvest numbers play out over the next few years with the added equipment since that's about all they can add. Unless rpg's become legal next year.

indianadude Yes I get that. I'm just saying let's see how the harvest numbers play out over the next few years with the added equipment since that's about all they can add. Unless rpg's become legal next year.

A couple of points...

1. Hprs are on a 5 season trial. Who knows if they will be allowed after that.

2. If past history is any indication, what will likely happen is that hprs (like pcrs) will gain usage by some but hardly all. Then when you break down the harvest by equipment type, the percentages will be further diluted due to additional choices but harvest numbers likely won't change dramatically.

Thanks for the discussion.

I am all in with RPG's. The "fun factor" alone is worth the price.

No more worries about shot angle!!

People are dropping their bows to use the more longer range and easier to use crossbows..... all to enable an easier harvest.

People are dropping their shotguns, pcrs, pistols and Muzzy's to use the longer range HPRs......... all to enable an easier harvest.


All of these changes have been made for weapons.......AND..... more liberal harvest quotas over the last 5 years.

The amount of deer available is dropping dramatically each year (planned yes, but also masked) ...... but the ease of harvest ability has increased due to more long range weapons/easier to use weapons/more liberal tags (which has increased harvest to those that otherwise would have taken home the "donut hole")..... which "MASKS" the real data of a drastically reduced herd...... and those that just look at "the numbers" don't want to talk about "the mask" as it makes everything appear "OK". LOL!!!!! Those are the same people that took the authority away from our IDNR with Prop #2....... but don't want to look responsible.

What a messed up bunch that is. Geeeesh!!!

No worries though.......... as the barrel gets emptier, and the IDNR does not have the "quantity card" to play anymore to get hunters to buy tags.......... the only thing left will be the "quality card" to keep the hunters they need to keep buying tags.

We are headed straight to a shorter gun season. And if we don't....... hunters will continue to opt for more out of state hunts where 30+ days of gun use to harvest deer, and/or gun hunting during the middle of the rut does NOT exist..... or simply opt out of deer hunting altogether (which we are already seeing)....... or simply loses his place to hunt as he gets leased out of property to some other guy that is fed up with current Indiana regs (which we are already seeing more of too)

IDNR wants revenue to stay at home........ they have THEEE card they just haven't played................ Yet.

Just wait till next year, Charlie Brown. You'll see! Next year at this same time, I'll find a pumpkin patch that is *real* sincere and I'll sit in that pumpkin patch until the Great Pumpkin appears....

My "truth serum" must drive you just friggin' nuts........ LOL!!!!

Nostrafrickindamus he is.

+1...

"Truth Serum" huh....

Is it....pumpkin flavored?

Funny. I've had more deer in my woods this year than the past ten. Haven't seen ANYONE carrying a crossbow around here. Nor a hpr.

Sky still up in my county.

Tuesday after first weekend of ML 2015 (12/15/15): 113,815

Today (12/13/16): 111,039

A 2.4% year-over-year decline.

If we use a 5 year rolling average to smooth out the bumps, the trendline is actually a bit positive although I would speculate that is not correct. 2016 harvest is projected to be a 2.4% decline from 2015.

Well Dave, I haven’t seen a SINGLE deer since the opening day of gun season. My normal practice is to stay out in gun season, and give our place up as sanctuary for the deer until I see one I want to go after. In recent years there are always 15-20 deer that yard up on our place from the pressure. (That number was once 50-60) Nothing has changed, and actually we have made it better for the deer. It has always been that way. But, I don’t have to hunt to know what’s there. Where I’m at, I can see deer whether I’m in one of my stands or not. And I’m not talking just on our farm. I’m talking the two square mile block that I have access to, and I’m on or around every single day working on the farm! In setting coyote snares, and glassing almost every evening, I have seen exactly ZERO! Its just not me, it the neighbors, friends, and my trail cameras that back up what I’m not seeing. You know its bad when several local farmers ask….”Where’s the deer”! It’s not about the weapons, can’t do anything about that anyway. But I KNOW for a fact there were several people hunting and killed deer with HPR’s in the neighborhood, and just as many hunt with crossbows as do compounds now. Want me to take a picture next time a buggy goes down the road with a couple of crossbows strapped to the top?? After having a lengthy conversation with the local biologist, I initially disagreed with him. I was saying get rid of the one bonus permit we have in the county. He said it wouldn’t do any good. When you have more people hunting for deer, than there are deer, it just doesn’t matter. After thinking about that all night, he is right. We can already kill more does than what’s needed without the bonus permit. As you always say, “a dead deer is dead no matter what weapon killed it”. Well, that’s true, but with all that now, what it has done is greatly sped up the process eliminating most of them! So, before you, or anybody else for that matter, snidely spouts off about the “sky is not falling” crap, what you need to do look outside your 20 acre deer paradise or whatever it is, and see what’s going on elsewhere. Because here, the sky isn’t falling, it’s SLAMMED to the ground!!!! State wide, I’m sure we’re good, I have no worries about the deer population. However, I’ve been hunting this area for 30+ years. I know what the hunting used to be like, and what its capable of being. Not any more…………..

Yaz A couple of questions....

Based on your location listed I assume you are talking about Decatur County?

If what your local biologist is saying is true about the numbers of people versus deer, what would you like to see happen?

In addition to the above, are there a lot of depredation permits being issued? Lots of poaching going on? Was there an EHD outbreak recently?

I live in Decatur County, a short distance from the farm that is located in Southern Rush County. Average annual harvest is +/- 300 yr. in Rush County. There has been very few, to no depredation permits issued. I know, the Biologist is my Cousin who issues them. He actually HATES to issue them. No wild disease whatsoever, and never has been. Some EHD in the two deer farms, that are not near where our place is at.. I'd say poaching in the literal sense isn't near what it is in higher deer density areas. Not enough deer to make it worthwhile I guess! Although is does happen. What I don't know is how many of those deer around there actually get checked in. I have my suspicions.

I personally know out of 6 local families, there are 21 that hunt that section. Unless some others have gotten old enough, thats what I last remember. But thats not all. There are another 1/2 dozen guys, and local land owners that hunt or allow others to hunt in that section also.

In that block I know there were 9 does/yearlings, and the same amount of various, but mostly yearling bucks. I know for a fact all 9 does have been eliminated. I did pull a card that had been soaking for 3 weeks tonight, and had one BB, and yearling 8 pointer.

Most of the county is not very suitable deer habitat, hence the low harvest numbers. Where we are located is very good habitat. It actually could be the very best the county has to offer. I have done my part, and not killed does for 15 years, and only take a buck every 3 or 4 years. Not because I don't want to, because I'm not one to preach one thing and do another. See how thats worked out for me though…. :rolleyes:

What do I want to see done……nobody wants to hear it, and it would't happen anyway. But it WOULD be the only possible way to slow it down in this area. So, other than the "feel good" rant, its all really pointless. With the exception to inform the ones one here that really DON'T know what its like outside their little realms, preaching to ME that the "sky isn't falling". BTW- Thanks for asking jjas. Seriously.

Yaz BTW- Thanks for asking jjas. Seriously.


Sure, I was just curious.