Many threads of late have been those concerned with severely lower deer #'s in the field last year and even MORE compounded lower #'s this year. The IDNR is taking public feedback right now and shutting it off in late Feb.

Get your comments in.....don't forget to leave them with suggestions like shortening the gun season, reducing antlerless quotas, etc, etc. Those that have no disregard for the way things are headed to a severely reduced herd already will not be happy with suggesting reducing the # of days of gun season......but who cares. Listening to "that crowd" got us into this mess faster and deeper that we are in now.....and caused the IDNR to choose their second option (prop2.0).....not their first option (prop1.0). Click in the link below.....let the IDNR know how you feel about this current disaster of Prop 2.0 that the IDNR was forced to do. Copy the same response you send to the IDNR and send it to your Legislators too. Also sending a copy to Bryan Pointer and Pat Early of the NRC would be a good idea too. If Woody can send 100's of emails to Bryan Pointer to push crossbows and supporting extending this "special antlerless" season we got with Prop 2.0.....(as Bryan Pointer said about Woody's email barrage to him).....then we can send our 100's of ideas on how to undo this mess to Bryan Pointer of the NRC.

Here's the link gang.....let them have it.....

IDNR Feedback Link

Already been there and voiced my support.

And thanks to the powers that be for taking public comments. More people have a voice in the process this way.

Wow, You think they are serious about reduction?

Increasing bag limit? 8 is not enough?
Baiting?

Deer (Urban Deer Zones): Rename urban deer zones to reduction zones,
- Modify boundaries for these zones,
- Allow baiting to be used in these zones after archery season closes,
- Increase bag limit of antlerless deer in these areas,
- Allow the director to establish these zones on an annual basis by temporary rule,
- Allow firearms in these areas (where authorized by local ordinances)

It's a national trend. Did you happen to see the recent Time magazine article? Here's a link to a blog about it. Interesting read.

web pagehttp://www.fieldandstream.c...over-story-should-challenge-deer-hunters

Kind said this for years now, but if the folks want a good deal of "input" then have a booth at the Renfro show that has a simple computer survey that folks have to enter their driver license number so as to assure no duplication. Could be something that would take less then three minutes to complete and they'd have access to thousands of sportsmen and women that probably have nothing to do with any clubs or websites. A smart high school kid could create the survey in no time at all. If the DNR would do this, I'd work with the Kevin and his brother to find a spot and figure out how the the booth space would be paid for the DNR. I'm sure someone in the DNR is reading these goofy websites. Phil or others, if interested, call me!

Now in regard to the magazine comment of "Finally, at long last, America may be increasingly seeing us as we see ourselves: as game managers. We need to hold up our end of the bargain, especially in the suburbs where in many cases we are not doing enough. If we don't, we risk losing our credibility with non-hunters, the damage from which would be far worse than what any anti-hunters could inflict", are we also willing to not pull the trigger when numbers are down, be it gun or bow?

If the DNR could figure out a way to make something like that available statewide I'd support it in a second.

It's a good idea.

I did read it when it came out. Well written piece portraying hunters in a positive light.

This really is the BIG picture...+1

sent in my comments like I have done numerous other times. Not optimistic that the IDNR will change their "kill em all" stance anytime soon.

Copy/Paste of my input to the DNR:
The following are my thoughts on recent changes to the Indiana deer seasons, and bag limits.. First of all I think the additional antlerless season is a great idea, which gives Indiana gun/deer hunters an additional eleven days to hunt deer. I also think it was a good Idea to take out the break in bow season. Now, with that being said I also have a couple of complaints... The deer don't want their herd reduced, and the hunters likewise would prefer to see more, not less deer. I see no reason why any county should have a bag limit of more than 4 antlerless deer, period.....The one buck rule was a GREAT idea, and it has improved the quality if Indiana's bucks dramaticly, GET RID OF TELECHECK so it can be enforced ! Last but not least, I would like to adress the favoritism shown to bow hunters. Deer season should come in Oct.1 and go out Jan 5. In that time, a hunter should be able to bag a deer with any weapon he or she chooses.

I think most on here, myself included are all for reducing deer numbers where needed....towns/cities/urban areas, State Parks/Preserves, etc....but the DNR does it with a broad brush....they put the whole of Porter County a "Urban Zone"....the north vs south portion of this county is as different as NW Indiana vs south of Indy....2 different worlds....of course the over kill via the **** antlerless tags is beyond compare....They take any given county and put a 8 bonus on it when the whole county dosnt need to be a 8....some areas, yes or maybe, but not the whole county....I'm with Randy on the telecheck....I dont like it either...

First I would like to say that I respect everyone's opinion on the subject (and that's exactly what these are, opinions, none of use are unequivocally correct).
I have voiced my opinion on subject to DNR website. I agree with statement that DNR uses broad brush; however, to take a micro view would require vast amount of resources that I simply don't think DNR has. Probably why we as hunters need to participate in these surveys.

I voiced against increased bag limits, Urban zone reclassification. I also voiced that I don't agree that all Porter & Lake should b urban. In addition I have stated the real problem in Indiana is access to private land and that the State should find ways to help hunters gain access. I also stated that if land owners are benefiting from the state by crop damage insurance or subsidies they should be required to have hunter access available.

I support telecheck, baiting and keeping the gun season the same.

While many will disagree it's my thoughts and I have voiced them.

http://farm.ewg.org/search.php?fips=18000®ionname=Indiana

Here ya go country boy, this will really tick ya off. Can look up those farmers who get subsidies then lease it right back out to the taxpayers.

Every day, somebody at work or in my family bashes obama for aparently being the only president to give money away. According to most everyone I'm around, the only reason anyone is unemployed or doesn't have healthcare is because obama gives them every thing for free. It's as if obama is the 1st president to sign off on spending.

Then you read the link above... farm subsidies... talk about free money! As if homeland security isn't a big enough waste of money, we have farm subsidies.
Basically, a guy takes advantage of our freedom and CHOOSES farming as his occupation. Or better yet, inherits a farming business. A lot of times a HUGE farm. So then these guys fall on hard times or whatever... and the government bails them out. Just like they bailed out the banks and GM and Chrysler.
Now most who claim to be republican or conservative will come on here and say we have the freedom to succeed AND the freedom to fail. But evidently in the case of farmers... they don't feel that way. They deserve a bailout.
I took my freedom and chose my profession. And no republican would be in favor of bailing me out if I lose MY job(Nor would I expect them to). But farmers... the government uses MY tax dollars to bail out HUGE corporate farms and those who vote republican are saying THAT is okay.
But the elderly person living downtown... they don't deserve it because they're LAZY.

WHAT IN THE HECK IS THIS COUNTRY TURNING INTO?

Sorry to get off topic. I'll be giving the IDNR my input.

I'm just so sick of hearing every day how everyone else is lazy. I work my butt off. Most couldn't do my job if they wanted to.
And I realize that if I get hurt or get unexpectedly sick... that I won't be able to do my job. And then, everyone else who never could do my job, will call me lazy

Where did that rant come from, and how did farm subsidies and politics get drug into this thread?

Bump....give your feedback those that need to hear it. ( see original post on this thread)

Hope everyone is giving their feedback regarding Indiana DNR being responsible for a Midwest wide deer population down turn and what Indiana DNR needs to do to fix it.

Well..........don't expect our Indiana DNR to "lead the way" for the Midwest as they have CLEARLY shown the past few years they are incapable of doing such....when their hands get tied, and they are forced to choose "second choices" by a few loud hunters that do not represent our IDNR's first choices, or what the majority of our Deer Hunters wanted. Good luck with our IDNR being able to "lead the way" in the Midwest with that "Ball and Chain" strapped to them....as they actually DO converse with other Midwestern DNR staff leaders.

But glad you can see that from your sarcastic post.......So Sad when our IDNR is at the "bottom of the heap" with issues in this Midwest Deer Decline other states are experiencing.

So much to fix here..........glad you care MKFrench.

+1
What the complainers don't realize is that we grew our herd with basically the same firearms structure we have had for the past 30 years minus the late antlerless season. Looks like the DNR has the herd exactly where they want them, and now it will be easy to adjust the harvest by adding or taking away antlerless permits.

No Need to adjust any season dates just bump up antlerless tags or knock them down a notch or two to gain desired results.

Brew hit the nail on the head! h.h.

Couple of points to recent posts, The herd is in a decline if not a steep decline. Recent outbreaks of EHD has certaintly contributed as well as hunter harvests. Antlered harvest as a ratio to anlerless harvest is a main factor in antlerless permits assigned to each county. If antler harvest keeps rising they "assume" the herd is growing, this is without any research on hunter demographics on a given county, before or after each season. Are more hunters hunting a given county?

When your male deer(antlered and buttons) harvest is less than the female harvest there is little doubt that you are reducing the deer herd. You need those females to produce the bucks taken, at a virtual 1:1 birth ratio common sense says less doe less bucks.I;ve set back and watched the 40:60 bucks to does in recent years and thought this will not goe well, now it seems it "is not going well". Going well for IDNR and its financial needs, going well for a "deer reduction", but not the hunter satisfaction.

IDNR is going to be able to go to the legislature and "pump their chests" as to how they met goals demanded by the legislature. Does ANYONE here get it? This is not what IDNR wanted! IDNR would love a deer behind every tree, they would sell more license and gain more revenue. Revenue the LEGISLATURE doles out in a budget. IDNR in my memory has NEVER been allowed to spend as much as it takes in. Hunters contribute heavily to any"surplus Indiana has as License fees are not available to deposit in the "General Fund". OUR license fees can't be taken to pay for anything outside IDNR.

That said, it only makes sense that IDNR wants more license sales (or revenue) so their budget can be bigger. Who pays the price? The deer! I set in the meetings on the "bundle license", I heard the talk of not losing revenue, and how this bundle package would increase revenue. I have no problem funding IDNR, but folks THEY are "government". Their sole purpose is to grow "government" it insures their jobs.

Sure they can drop high county permits in some counties as an olive branch, but will it make a difference?

If most people are not killing more than 2 deer is a fact(and it is) how will it affect a county harvest? Switch Switzerland county from a "8" to a "4" and I would bet nothing changes. Season dates and lengths do affect hunter attitudes.

This can be best expained by our present season dates. IDNR readily admits that a longer season gives more opportunity for hunters and spread the harvest out over several months. Weather is not as much a factor(but they and other states are fast to use it when needed). The more days in the field the better the chance a hunter kills a deer.

Brew: I have met you, I like you, you claim to be the "guardian of gun season". Be honest, your job keeps you on the road out of state. ANY reduction of season length in gun seasons reduces your ability to kill a mature buck. Your concerns are self centered and not about the overall herd or the "guy next door".

As posted by others here a "few" of us have our own "Nirvana" when it comes to deer hunting. "We" have no need to fight for changing any regulations as we "manage" ourrselves, what I and others try to do is improve the experience of those around us.

Hunt on! But remember the enemy is not IDNR, it is "US" and the legislature who controls IDNR. It takes "US" to control the killing, and "US" to tell the legislature "enough killing ", but alas "US" will continue to type here.....LOL!

Very well put, Joe.

Thanks Joe for reiterating what I have been saying all along... Reducing counties from 8 to 4 is meaningless if hunters are only killing two deer... Only way to make an impact is to cut it down to 1 bonus tag or say you can have 92 bouns tags as long as you do not use more then one per county...

Thats terribly put "joe" and in fact is "the pot calling the kettle black!"

I am 100% satisfied with the indiana deer hunting. I hunt almost exclusively public ground with exception of a 13 acre farm I have access to and the occasion hunt as a guest with friends. There are things I don't like but satisfied.

As far as being "selfish" about the length of gun hunting. I'm get father of 2 young boys and have a job that isn't friendly to my hunting "wants". This year for example my deer hunting consisted of hunting Tuesday mornings from last week in October thru the 1st week of ML season and Opening weekend of gun season. Trust me, i "wanted" to hunt more and if I had to choose one weapon only it'd be bow BUT I don't have to nor do i expect anyone else to think that way. Leave the. seasons as is and adjust the antlerless tags as/where needed.

Big middle finger to most of the loudest hypocrites on this site...you know who you are.

We are by nature each a but selfish and want it our way. Remember, this deer herd is not biologically in trouble. So, all of this is social recreational stuff.

JOE(JB):I have met you, I like you also and hope that NEVER changes.My job has little influence on my Deer Hunting 99% of the time. I hunted 20+ days in Nov.and 7+day in Dec.this year.My concerns are NOT self centered as you may call/see it but your entitled to you opinion. And yes I'm very concerned about overall herd and the "guy next door"....I have not forgot "where" I came from!!!!

BTW...As stated here before the deer herd grew in numbers and prospered very well in numbers basically under the current season structures, except for the recently added antlerless week. The obvious major difference was/is access to tags for antlerless deer. Without any other changes except the elimination of the antlerless week, the deer herd can/will recover reasonably quickly.

Here is the email from another site, one that claims to NEVER influence a hunters decision.....

I would be remiss if I didn't identify the site and Author........ WWW.hunt-indiana.com and Woody Williams.


From: HUNTING INDIANA


INPUT TO THE IDNR

As owner and administrator of hunt-indiana.com I would be remiss in my duty to not give all members a heads up on the present DNR input session.

This is the second year since the IDNR started on a strategic deer herd population reduction program in specific areas. Contrary to some beliefs it appears to be working. Has it gone too far in some areas? Possibly, but the IDNR can alleviate that with bonus permit allocation reduction in those same areas.

Proof positive is that the DNR basically eased off the deer herd reduction gas pedal after the first year (2012) and instituted a reduction of bonus permits from 2012 to 2013 in some 20 counties. That shows that it is going the way that they wanted it to go and they are now starting to scale back. 6 of those 20 counties fell to a 3 or less bonus permit county that took those counties out of the “special late antlerless” season. It is my opinion that they will ease off some more for the 2014 season.

Now the heads up - I’m sure that there are some hunters that do not care for any reduction at all, but it is what it has to be. A very vocal minority is using this planned reduction in an attempt to turn the clock back and are again proposing to “shorten and move the gun and muzzleloader seasons, get rid of the late special antlerless season and get rid of the crossbows.” I guess they do not understand the concept of a “strategic herd reduction” that the DNR is doing.

If you do not want any changes to the firearm and/or the muzzleloader and crossbow season I suggest that you make your feelings known to the DNR at

http://www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/7373.htm .

We have had a 16 day firearm and a 16 day muzzleloader season for a long, long, long time. Even when the DNR was *GROWING* our deer herd. They can grow the herd again with the current seasons by doing exactly what they did then - limiting antlerless permits and/or scaling back county participation in the late special antlerless season. With the DNR deer biologist using the antlerless bonus permits the herd can be controlled where it is supposed to be. When a county gets to a 3 bonus allowance that removes it from the late special antlerless season, just like the DNR did with those 6 counties this last season. That move brought to a total of 23 counties that the “special late antlerless season did not apply. With the bonus permits reduction and more counties falling under the 4 limit for the special late antlerless season the DNR can tweak the herd size the way it supposed to do without taking away any deer hunter opportunity

Please send in YOUR input on this and YOUR OWN IDEAS to the DNR today at –

http://www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/7373.htm

Thanks,

Woody Williams


You are receiving this email because you have
opted to receive emails from hunt-indiana.com


Any influence here ??????????? Woody has it figured out, he uses people who have no clue but a crossbow agenda......

So have any of the "FACTS" been miss represented in that email???

Too little. ......too late Woody.

It's over.....send all the propaganda chit you want to others. You fried yourself and others with your "one time glory stunt"....and your "one trick pony".

The only hope I have at this point Woodward is that you are still alive to see this shortened gun season happen.....shortly.

.....and scratch your beedy little head wondering how it all fell apart for you in a few short years.

You're panicking Woody.....and I know why.....

:rolleyes: .....SMH

Well Brew he used coyotes as a factor in his recent posts on his site and you agreed. NOT A FACT for his input correct? so he is mis reprenting facts to some one.......is it his members or is it to IDNR?

What I do know is in the end, crossbows will survive and this plan failed. You and many others sold out sound management to crossbow inclusion. Now you aare willing to give up a late antlerless season and the number of county antlerles permits to protect gun season length and crossbows........Can you say HYPROCRITE?

I'm done before I lose friendships........

Honestly, can folks drop the emotional stuff. Look, 2.0 didn't get us in this situation and neither did crossbows. There us nothing to support that thought. Maybe things need to change but seriously, guys on here are good people, can there be any sense of acting such.

Poor Woody.......guy gets blasted on this site! If your reading this Woody......I've got your back.....crossbow brother!

Woody needs to be left out of comments entirely because he isn't relevant to the issue and doesn't comment here. This site shouldn't treat people in that manner.

+1 spread the love man

Nice post dew, your true colors are really showing with this one.

In 2012 the ML season accounted for 9% of the harvest. The late antlerless season took 7% for a combined 16% of the harvest.

In 2011 the ML accounted for 15% of the harvest.

In 2010 13%.

It seems to me that some of the folks who shot does in the ML season are now holding out for the late antlerless season instead.

In other words, much of the harvest of the late antlerless season would have been killed in the ML season anyway. Therefore elimination of that season will only have a partial reduction in the harvest.

On the other hand, there were 7500 more deer taken by crossbows in 2012 than there were in 2011. That accounts for the entire increase in deer harvest from 2011 to 2012. The increase was 7200.

You bet they show true Blackoak......!!!!! I am still an advocate that the IDNR gets the shorter gun seasons they wanted in 1.0...... And the public gets to keep the x-bows they wanted in 2.0.......

.......and one person that selfishly then and now that just lives for 2.0 is still alive to see both IDNR and the public blend together what they BOTH wanted as their first choice. I want to see that kind of person live to see that can happen......and scratch their head wondering why his selfishness did not win out in the end.

I'll live quite well with those kind of true colors I represent Blackoak.....Quite Well.....