yea, if they were closer .... SMH ... I know of several guys who killed deer in the south county that used .243 and.308's and they said they never would have killed them if it wasnt for the rifles, as they wouldnt have attempted the shots with their slug guns....it seems there is some one on here that killed a good buck at an extended range with a rifle...like I said earlier, the only reason we had the kill we did this year was because of a more efficient weapon and the ability and the want to shoot at longer ranges.... the gun kill WAS UP, that will be the only season that was....