You've been saying that for the last 3+ years....

The truth of the matter is, The DNR isn't likely to move/shorten a season that pays the bills and manages the herd unless/until Hoosier hunters prove they can/will help manage the herd with archery equipment, over several seasons......and that hasn't happened.

LOL!!! You ought to see and meet my neighbors that get pats on the backs from me, they are the first ones to call me as they want me to help get their monster buck out they got on my border, they live on my website as they and others share about how to get these studs. Only someone with a "oakenhardblackheart" could conjure up the idea you just posted. Sorry your life is like that. Hope it changes for you some day. There actually ARE people like Joe, PAV, and Dews that like the idea of all having opps like we have........but discouraged, depressed, angry, blackhearted people want us to appear as something different.

And people with hearts and ideas like you "blackheart"... about good hardworking positive people....yep, we've come to expect it as we know others with selfish intentions to have as many days they can have to pursue a buck will reign supreme in their minds as they have all the land they need/want.......and could care less about anyone else on this planet. Or....they just don't give a flip about anything anymore except throwing "dung", "whipping people to keep the planets aligned", or quoting some dried up "Clint Eastwood" saying that just proves they're just angry every day they even have to wake up.

Spread the word blackoak...........we aren't who you say we are....our intentions are not what you type....and there are 1,000's upon 1,000's here that read what I, Joe,s, PAV,s , etc post, and don't disagree with it, ..........but just only the same few spew the same spit, send the same hateful PM's, and put up the same dried up links or X2, X3, or X1,0000000 comment cause they just run out of ways to type more nonsense.......and the next guy that can type different sounding nonsense........they just pile on in agreement 'cause it sounds better than the old nonsense they've been typing for months....LOL!!!!!

So have at it Blackoak...........Hate Away!! It's all you got......so do it well buddy.

And for the rest of you that are tired of seeing our herd blasted, quality ignored, hunters getting represented by those that could CARE LESS about what others want and get stuck with Props like 2.0, and are sick of the IDNR not getting to implement their FIRST CHOICES........give your feedback to the IDNR here...

IDNR Feedback Link

So which is it jjas..........the herd being managed by the doe permit quotas, or now....the archery season hunters....as you just said.

Which flavor is it jjas? Or maybe I should ask "which flavor will it be next to fit your agenda"

The reality is...both. If antler less doe permits are reduced over the next few seasons what do you think is going to happen? The herd numbers will start to rise again.

And unless archery hunters show they can help manage a herd over that time by taking a higher share of the total number of allowed antler less deer that are killed, I highly doubt the DNR will entertain moving/shortening the gun season.

It simply doesn't make sense from a herd management or financial standpoint......

Exactly.....

if you think the deer herd and financial standpoint for the IDNR will be the SAME landscape after this 5 year slaughter......as hunters and IDNR have come to embrace for decades as the herd was being grown.......you got ALOT to learn bud.........and trust me, YOU WILL LEARN.

ALOT will be changing.........ALOT of interest/focus to keep hunters buying tags will be changing too.

The stage is being set.........and you helped make it happen jjas.....in SO MANY ways.

Sure Linus...sure.

I would like to see Illinois finances after deer season....I bet they aren't doing too bad.

And here I was expecting some "great insight" I missed.......but as you have to resort to "name calling".........I must be much closer to the heart of the matter than you like.

Hate Away........You're good at it.... My PM box is empty so you can keep sending me hateful PM's to let me know "how insignificant" I am to you.......And how "insignificant" my message is.......LOL!!!!

The point is Indiana has all the potential to be more then what everyone calls a "sleeper state." In fact Indiana isn't a sleeper state at all. It is a state where you will continually see trophy bucks taken because there are bucks that are smart enough to keep slipping through the cracks but Indiana will never be as good as Illinois or ohio because of our regs too many small bucks getting killed during the rut to have a surplus of monster bucks. Do you have any idea the revenue Illinois generates just by being one of best KNOWN states to kill a giant buck. The word is and has been out for Illinois and people are spending the money to go there. SOOOOOO financially it would make sense to shorten the gun season and take it out of the rut.. Wake Indiana up people. No more "sleeper" state.

Ooooops........my bad.......My PM Box is NOT empty anymore!! As I was typing it was empty.....you were sending me little hateful messages via PM!! LMAO!!!!!!! You are so friggin' predictable!!!

Oh God.......Good predictable entertainment.....hard to find these days....but totally precious.

Wow...that's 3 or 4 times in the last 24 hours you've publicly mentioned my "hateful PMs"...and you used the words "totally precious" in a post...

Who knew you were so sensitive?

How long will it be before the "move gun season to the last of December for 5 days" [M-F], rears it ugly head again.. If we dew that, then we will become a trophy state, and we will again become what what we used to be. That's what we need to dew to show the DNR that what they have been dewing is not right and the chosen few dew.

Please don't confuse my total entertainment .........with someone like yourself that is so sensitive YOU have to INITIATE demonic little PM's. I simply let you do what you feel you need to do. It's just who you are. Be proud of it.....I guess.

That has never been proposed. Why would you post untruth?

There is no arguing that Indiana is a top B&C state since the numbers support it. Will we continue to produce the same quality in the future, who knows? The DNR decided, on their own or through pressure from the state legislature, that the herd needed to be reduced. There is no doubt that the plan they enacted is working. I think they will back off of bonus permits in certain areas but others will continue to be part of the reduction effort. Dew is passionate about his views and there is no doubt he has put a successful management strategy in place. Joe has said before that by shortening the gun season there would be an increased sense of urgency which could lead to an increase in the number of young bucks harvested as an overall percentage of the take.

http://wiredtohunt.com/2013/06/03/t...one-crocket-buck-you-might-be-surprised/

States With Top B&C Entries As a % of Total Buck Harvest (2009-2011)

1. Indiana – .084%
2. Kentucky – .082%
3. Kansas – .078%
4. Iowa – .078%
5. Illinois – .065%

States With Top Total Number of B&C Entries (2009-2011)

1. Wisconsin – 241
2. Ohio – 151
3. Illinois – 136
4. Kentucky – 134
5. Indiana – 131
(For those curious – Iowa came in at 112 and Kansas had 98)

You are correct js2397.........Indiana was headed in a good direction during that time period......and just as soon as it was getting GREAT for quality.........and The IDNR as their FIRST choice wanted to position us in even a BETTER direction for such as they had to reduce the herd a bit..........the regs for 2012 and beyond were forced upon them by people like jjas, Woody, etc, etc, to squash that momentum, and take away the FIRST choice of our IDNR to sustain quality or make it better........even in the midst of a reduction.

..........In the name of what!!??

Good History Lesson js2397.......when we let the IDNR do their FIRST choices as they were in the years preceding and during 2009-2011.......quality can happen..... AND .....managing quantity can happen........SIMULTANEOUSLY !!!

Not the way things are set up any more though......temporarily.

That was never proposed. Why would you post that untruth....

Indiana should have more b&c bucks then wisconsin with gun season in the middle of the rut that should stand out more then anything. These other states are doing better then us with gun season out of the rut explain that

You poor thing. Still complaining about PMs?

I think you're likely suffering from pms, but I doubt it has much to do with private messages....

HATE AWAY jjas.........it's all you got left to crap out of your potato gun.

Just let it flow..........

The deer habitat and number of deer on the ground between the various states is a major influence on the numbers. Wisconsin had much more habitat throughout the state then indiana and that alone doesn't allow a fair comparison of actual harvest numbers. The point is, you can't compare one state to another with any validity unless you look at a comprehensive set of factors.

THAT.....is what "they" don't want to explain...

js2397 There was/is and always will be quality bucks in this state.

And as far as herd reduction goes. There are some that are genuinely concerned about the herd, there are some that are just freaking out and there are a few that are using herd reduction as a way to try and push the gun season out of November.

I agree with you. We'll likely see bonus antler less permit numbers reduced in some areas.

We'll also likely see harvest numbers dip and then level out over the next few seasons.

After all.....that is the goal.

http://wsfrprograms.fws.gov/Subpages/LicenseInfo/Hunting.htm

Thank you brew IL 35 mil to IN 10 mil. So who said its not a good idea focus on growing bigger bucks?????

Now now gentlemen, let's all settle down and watch some Olympics:

http://www.collegehumor.com/post/69...rs-and-other-flatulence-olympic-athletes

"Better": are those states allowed to bait. If so and they don't have extensive ag good sources, maybe all deer are more easily harvested over bait later in the year as winter food sources in those states are not as available and Wisconsin, for instance, had harsher weather. Maybe harvest and the rut is meaningless in that situation. Possibly other states have similar situations. Certainly KY does and the baiting issue there is a pretty significant contributing factor.

Maybe the use of high powered rifles also reduces the rut vs non rut harvest impact. Or, is it possible that a secondy rut hunt in December makes bucks even more vulnerable because they have to work harder and be more exposed in looking for a doe.

The list could go on. Besides, what is the definition of better. On a percent of buck kill, it doesn't appear others states are doing better. If its the raw number of bucks killed, what is the total available bucks because that would be a significant factor. How about B&C per deer habitat acre? Endless.

OK Delaney I respect your opinion. We will just agree to disagree. All I can hope for and all I care about is that we are fortunate enough to have many more deer seasons to come. I want the deer population to thrive I don't kill a lot of deer and when I do its only a mature deer. I take pride in the way I hunt I don't want to be the guy that kills more then he needs just to kill. I spend the entire year prepping for hunting season and I love it. I don't like what I see with the future of Indiana deer hunting. I think it could be handled much better and efficiently.

Big, I certainly respect your thoughts as well and in many ways would agree with many of your points c