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HB1246 amendment #32379
02/24/2016 03:20 PM
02/24/2016 03:20 PM
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muncie
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muncie
There looks to be a Senate floor amendment from Senator Messmer to ban drones during hunting season to look for wild game. It may be offered tomorrow.


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Re: HB1246 amendment #32380
02/24/2016 05:06 PM
02/24/2016 05:06 PM
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indianapolis,in, usa
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Re: HB1246 amendment #32381
02/26/2016 06:04 AM
02/26/2016 06:04 AM
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HatchetJack Offline
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As expected the amendment to alter the HB1246 has been filed:

iga.in.gov/legislative/2016/bills/house/1246#document-816d3d6a

This basically prohibits the Division of Forestry from doing their job. There are many thousands of acres in parks and nature preserves and fish & wildlife areas in Indiana that are protected from logging. The state forests were not created so tree huggers would have a free state park to roam in. We have one of the best forestry divisions in the country and this is how the politicians treat them. I ask that this amendment be defeated. Contact your state senator right now!!

Jack


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Re: HB1246 amendment #32382
02/26/2016 09:11 AM
02/26/2016 09:11 AM
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Montgomery County
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76chevy Offline
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Sorry but I support this amendment.

Our old growth forests should not be logged for profit. Pretty awful what has happened to some of the areas within the Greene Sullivan state forest. Clear cut several areas.

This proposal would not affect hunting or recreation in these areas

Sec. 6. The designation of old forest areas in state forests under
17
this chapter does not affect the following:
18
(1) Hunting, fishing, trapping, and the gathering of edible and
19
medicinal plants and mushrooms in the state forests, as
20
permitted by law and administrative rules.

Re: HB1246 amendment #32383
02/26/2016 10:13 AM
02/26/2016 10:13 AM
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Mooresville Indiana
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:rolleyes:


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Re: HB1246 amendment #32384
02/26/2016 10:37 AM
02/26/2016 10:37 AM
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Seymour
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Quote
Originally posted by 76chevy:
Sorry but I support this amendment.

Our old growth forests should not be logged for profit. Pretty awful what has happened to some of the areas within the Greene Sullivan state forest. Clear cut several areas.

This proposal would not affect hunting or recreation in these areas

Sec. 6. The designation of old forest areas in state forests under
17
this chapter does not affect the following:
18
(1) Hunting, fishing, trapping, and the gathering of edible and
19
medicinal plants and mushrooms in the state forests, as
20
permitted by law and administrative rules.
Selective timbering is good for the forest and good for wildlife. I'm with you on clear cutting, but mature timber should be removed to make room for new growth....young trees will prosper and ground level vegetation (virtually extinct in old growth forests) will thrive.


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Re: HB1246 amendment #32385
02/26/2016 11:19 AM
02/26/2016 11:19 AM
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You may feel strongly one way or another but I can tell you after attending the last series of forestry meetings, we have doubled the amount of cutting in our State and National forests in the last several years. The foresters will tell you that they could be cutting more. Until you go to a meeting, you can't appreciate how many different users and groups all voice very strong opinions. Horse riders, campers, tree huggers, bunny huggers, hunters, joggers, loggers, mountain bikers, adjacent landowners, etc. I personally don't like to see the aggressive cutting we now see, but it corresponds to a big down turn in funding when a 100 year provision went away in 2008, I believe. Iirc, the state fair was similarly impacted. Is it coincidence or necessity to add revenue through state and federal land logging?


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Re: HB1246 amendment #32386
02/26/2016 11:33 AM
02/26/2016 11:33 AM
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Montgomery County
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76chevy Offline
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Agreed 100%.

I can't speak for all logging on DNR forest property statewide but what I saw at the GSF was not good for wildlife or anyone but the logging company and the DNR cashing the check. Forests planted in the 50's and 60's cut to clear ground in several locations over many acres.

Quote
Originally posted by pav:
....
Selective timbering is good for the forest and good for wildlife. I'm with you on clear cutting, but mature timber should be removed to make room for new growth....young trees will prosper and ground level vegetation (virtually extinct in old growth forests) will thrive. [/QUOTE]

Re: HB1246 amendment #32387
02/26/2016 11:36 AM
02/26/2016 11:36 AM
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Montgomery County
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76chevy Offline
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Which begs the question. WHY?

Were they not cutting enough before to adequately manage the resource or is this just about revenue generation today like you suggested?

Quote
Originally posted by Double B:
You may feel strongly one way or another but I can tell you after attending the last series of forestry meetings, we have doubled the amount of cutting in our State and National forests in the last several years. ...

Re: HB1246 amendment #32388
02/26/2016 01:45 PM
02/26/2016 01:45 PM
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indianapolis,in, usa
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HatchetJack Offline
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Every DNR biologist and forester will tell you that loss of habitat is the reason we lost our grouse in Indiana. The early successional habitat needed by grouse and other woodland species was lost because Democratic governors starting with Evan Bayh restricted the amount of logging in state forests. Old growth forests exist AND are protected in the state parks, state preserves, and state fish & wildlife areas where little or no logging is allowed.

The protesting of logging began with Mitch Daniels and the process of allowing habitat management in the state forests. It continues with Mike Pence. And no they were not cutting enough in state forests for nearly 30 years. The biologists warned us all and we did nothing.

Excellent article on the loss of habitat and birds in Indiana forests.

http://www.ruffedgrousesociety.org/UserFiles/File/OtherSilentSpring.pdf

The Ruffed Grouse Society is currently in litigation with national forests in Ohio and Indiana with the USFS for not creating the young forests needed to provide habitat for grouse. This is in direct violation of their own forest plan.


http://www.ruffedgrousesociety.org/USFS%20petition#.VtDVOfkrKM8

Jack


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Re: HB1246 amendment #32389
02/26/2016 02:13 PM
02/26/2016 02:13 PM
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Franklin
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^^^ This
Well said Jack!!!


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Re: HB1246 amendment #32390
02/26/2016 04:50 PM
02/26/2016 04:50 PM
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Hancock Co.
trapperDave Offline
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Ditto!


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Re: HB1246 amendment #32391
02/27/2016 06:30 AM
02/27/2016 06:30 AM
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Double B Offline
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So were we cutting over 15 million board feet pre Mitch? 30 years ago were we cutting more or less? I am asking for info not to argue, but it looks like a lot more cutting than I personally have ever seen. Last grouse I flushed was in a hard cut over in Crawford County probably 8 years ago. I get it, but I believe other drivers are at work here to produce revenue, not just grouse habitat restoration. Lots of groups sue over logging to get their point across....that's the remedy, other than going to meetings and reading prepared statements.


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Re: HB1246 amendment #32392
02/27/2016 11:11 AM
02/27/2016 11:11 AM
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indianapolis,in, usa
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HatchetJack Offline
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We were barely cutting at all before Mitch. I think there were 2 forest plans during Mitch's tenure. Both were significant increases over 20+ years of Democrat rule of DNR (upper level staff are appointed by the Governor).

All the science is on the side of the Forestry Division. Now I disagree with parts of the current plan calling for upgraded campgrounds and RV parks and rental cabins. But I leave the science to the scientists. In other states (Michigan and Wisconsin) 100 acre clear cuts are welcomed. We don't have that kind of ground and smaller 5-10 selective cuts work fine here in Indiana. The current proposed forest plan can be reviewed here:

http://www.in.gov/dnr/forestry/files/fo-State_Forest_Strategic_Plan_2015_2019.pdf

The bottomline is that 10% (or more) of the state forests are already preserved and protected from logging. This fight has been going on for a long time and I don't expect it will go away.I also disagree with funding the Division from the logging but Pence has pushed them in that direction. Lots of good info on the forestry home page:

http://www.in.gov/dnr/forestry/

Jack


There's a reason I like dogs better'n people... .
Re: HB1246 amendment #32393
02/27/2016 01:55 PM
02/27/2016 01:55 PM
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Re: HB1246 amendment #32394
02/27/2016 02:12 PM
02/27/2016 02:12 PM
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indianapolis,in, usa
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Re: HB1246 amendment #32395
02/27/2016 02:13 PM
02/27/2016 02:13 PM
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indianapolis,in, usa
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There's a reason I like dogs better'n people... .
Re: HB1246 amendment #32396
02/27/2016 03:28 PM
02/27/2016 03:28 PM
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southern Indiana
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huntsemall Offline
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Just some FYI...# of openings in acres - 413 (down 34% from 2014) and the average size opening across the Division was 2.7 acres.

Re: HB1246 amendment #32397
02/27/2016 04:13 PM
02/27/2016 04:13 PM
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Double B Offline
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Good stuff thanks for the links. Yeah I do see the advantages and have succsessfully hunted logged areas. I do have some areas that I like that are really mature and they are special too though. I saw a lot of activity with brush hogging forest openings this year and that was nice. Controlled burns too. I guess the forest lands that were picked up originally were regenerating and also pines planted by the CCC in the 30's and that helped grouse back in the day, but then it has really matured. Some mass clear cuts of large pine acreage in the Hoosier this fall and winter going on too. Those clear cuts will be gnarly soon. Seems like they are hitting it pretty hard, compared to say 10 years ago but we adjust, as do the animals. It has made hunting better is some areas.


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Re: HB1246 amendment #32398
03/01/2016 09:44 AM
03/01/2016 09:44 AM
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HatchetJack Offline
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Bill passed WITHOUT the forestry amendment!!!

48-2


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