INDIANAPOLIS (AP) — The leader of the Indiana Senate is holding up a proposal that would legalize the state’s high-fenced deer-hunting preserves.

The House voted last month to approve a bill that sets up a licensing and inspection process for Indiana’s four current preserves where farm-raised deer are hunted.

Those preserves currently aren’t regulated in Indiana and the state appeals court has ruled the Department of Natural Resources overstepped its authority in trying to shut them down.

Senate President Pro Tem David Long says he’s keeping the proposal on hold as House and Senate members work in private on a possible compromise. Long has been an opponent of the fenced preserves for several years and says he doesn’t think simply legalizing the current ones is a permanent solution.

http://wishtv.com/2015/03/23/senate-leader-holding-up-bill-on-fenced-in-hunting-preserves/

The bill will be heard on Monday with some modifications. The Senate Natural Resources Committee is heavily stacked in favor of the bill so I expect it to pass out of committee with only Dems and maybe one Republican voting against it. The lone Republican is trying to get tighter restrictions on the bill but I don't think it will be anything we will like.

http://iga.in.gov/legislative/2015/committees/natural_resources

Jack

I got a letter from my Representative offering to meet and discuss this further if I wished. She is firmly against the legislation and believes they should shut down. I am going to meet with her though on a few other DNR and NRC issues.

HB1453 has already passed the House. Instead you should meet with your Senator if possible.

I have exchanged communication with him. Not positive.

I have talked to my senator Jim Smith he voted against last time around And believe he will this time but has voted for in the past call him and ask

HB1453 passed out of committee by a 6-3 vote today. Bill has been amended but there are lots of holes in it. Most important is that DNR cannot make any rules that prohibit or impede the operations of the high fence facilities. In other words only the legislature can govern the deer preserves.

Passes committee 6-3. Not surprising. The real decision will be in the Senate.....IMO

Amendment to captive-deer bill now requires no deer imports into preserves. Only Hoosier farm-raised deer may be shot.

Fences at deer preserves would have to be 10 foot (currently 8) and they'd need to be 125 contigious acres

Deer can't be hunted within 24 hours of being sedated.

When CWD does get into a hunting preserve and the state kills them, no reimbursements from taxpayers

Where there's a will, there's a way.

Good news on another front though. If they legalize rifles, they will be used in state parks and other DNR properties per the DNR legal counsel.

As written the preserves could use any legal weapon ANYTIME they are open. As written deer drives INSIDE the fence are not banned. As written baiting could be allowed since the owners could argue that such a DNR regulation is impeding their business. There's no option requiring a distance between the fence and the treeline hence increasing the chance of a tree falling on the fence and leading to escapes. No option to prevent from using drones in aiding hunting. Not sure if dogs could be used or not. As written I would say they could.

This may be the best we can get but it's not enough and leaving DNR with no rulemaking power really defeats the purpose of involving them. Even the bird preserves are regulated by the DNR. Why not the deer preserves?

Jack

P.S. the bill that was passed today is still not available to the public.

Contact your Senator and urge them to vote against HB1453.

The why not Jack is because this legislature is not a bunch of people that has any real sense for what can happen, nor do they appear to care about much more then a few of their friends.

Well, we beat them back by one vote last year so I'm optimistic. Call your Senator.

This does need to be killed, please call your Senator.

If this passes............ I have it from a reliable source that the Deer and Elk farmers are going to sue........ Attorny's and paper work is already secured. Several issues are of legit concern..... for one, you can't grandfather in a few for a business. This is a major problem! 125 acres???? This pits SEVERAL operations against each other, same with the 10 foot fence. LAWSUIT just waiting to happen , then it allows them to operate for years until the courts decide the fate.

Call your Senator TODAY and have that person vote NO!

Kill it now and it very well could be permanent, but I have little faith in what the Republicans will do.

They believe they are untouchable............

Word on the Street is that this Bill now opens it so anyone can now pretty much open a preserve!!!

If anyone can clear up this roumour please do!!

Brew - while I still don't have a copy of the passed version of the bill I did talk to Senator Crider. You are correct that the bill as passed will allow for new facilities as long as they have the proper acreage and fence. This opens it up to everyone in the State. Major issue.

Free enterprise and none discrimination. That's what the state is all about. Oh, and if I heard right, the legislature says they should make the rules to manage the deer herd, not the DNR. (Or something like that) These folks IQ must be off the charts.

Well. I've seen the amendment and if you own 160 acres and a 10 foot fence you are in business. The committee make-up was stacked for this legislation. This is how the vote went:

http://iga.in.gov/legislative/2015/bills/house/1453#document-13eda896

Jack

Yeah, Dave, the only rules come from the legislature not DNR.

Understood, but the rules can affect management and if the legislature doesn't like the management, then they can make a rule.

How much does it cost to high-fence 160 acres? According to this link, it's about $25K per mile which is about what it would take to do 160 acres.

http://www.westerveltwildlife.com/pdf/Volume%206,%20Issue%203%20-%20High%20Fencing.pdf

So clearly that's not much of an entry barrier for horn pimps.

Call your Senator.

Actually 2 miles of fence to do a square of 160 acres (0.5 miles by 0.5 miles), but yeah I see your point.

The profit from the first few "trophy hunts" should pay for the fence.

Because of the RFRA amendment yesterday the vote on the high fence preserves has been delayed until at least Tuesday. Contact your Senator and the Governor and stop House Bill 1453.

Jack

Something to bear in mind: if our elected officials fail to pass a bill in regards to the" preserves" this year, there will be no regulations in place. This means I could potentially put up a fence around my 3/4 acre backyard and call it a preserve. Although I don't completely agree with this legislation I do feel some regulation is necessary. If we continue to just kill every bill regarding this issue we will create more problems.

Henry Frapp, IMO you're wrong. Our DNR is charged with managing our fish & game resources here in Indiana, and it needs to stay that way. It's only those seeking to take that control away in order to profit from the direct sale of wildlife in the form of canned hunting, who need a bill from the legislature.

As we have witnessed last week in Indiana, business interests generally speaking rule the world anymore. Admittedly this is a bit different, but to a reasonable degree the business interests pretty much drive and control what this legislature does and these pens are at least presented as a business opportunity for Indiana. Find 5 big corporate heads that don't support this and get then to call the Senate Pro Tem and the Speaker of the House and it'll be defeated. They clearly thought they controlled the state but learned otherwise.

Henry........... Use your real name.... Rodney Bruce or your cousin.......

You want this deal.

You may get it...... but a pig with lipstick is still a pig.

EXACTLY...you can't hide the "SMELL" also...!!!

From Ohio
http://www.cleveland.com/outdoors/index.ssf/2015/04/second_ohio_white-tailed_deer.html

Coming soon to a canned killing farm near you .....

Well, they passed second reading yesterday. I'd say this is pretty much a done deal. My senator contacted me and said he was voting against the bill no matter what. maybe the Governor will veto it. Hah!!

Jack

Yeah like that idiot we have for a Governor would ever do anything smart... Look no further then the fiasco we had to deal with last week... He is about as big as embarrassment as that idiot we currently have for a President...

Two different entities there '78 .... Pence should have held firm on the LGBT/gay crap and not budged....as for the high fence trash, I wish he would veto it....

Yup! ^^^^^^

I know it's a sore subject, but I have to ask....

How many on this forum voted not only for the people who pushed high fence hunting through but also voted for Gov Pence?

Everyone write your senator and the governor asking that this bill die. My senator already is on board as are others. Hopefully the governor may influence this and veto it. Then we go to the Supreme Court.

I'll be shocked if Pence vetoes this........

Sources tell me it's possible...

email him here:

http://www.in.gov/gov/2752.htm

I can't imagine his Republican buddies are going to be too happy if he throws them under the bus over this......

Regardless...thanks for the link.

jjas, I'm a conservative, and a proud one, that is how I vote..... Ive never voted Dem/lib, and never will...cant stand the nasty bastages....any ways, the Repubs are looking at this as pro business I'm guessin'.....the Dems in general are looking at this as more of an animal rights issue/anti hunting/anti gun and will be more prone to vote against it as that is what most Dems support, the enviro nut cases/anti side, its in their blood so to speak..... I will still support our Republican party in this state, I disagree with those supporting the high fence idiots on this issue, but I generally support what they do in the big picture... you will never find a politician that you can agree with 100% of the time..... if they piss me off enough, I just wont support them any longer, but I will not go to the dark side...

Email on behalf of The IDHA sent to Governor....

I'll be send Pence one shortly .....

Don't get me wrong, there are times when people I've supported "voted the wrong way" on issues and when that happens enough, I don't vote for them anymore.

Bottom line, I'm not a lever puller. I do my best to vote for candidates, and not just candidates from a particular party.

Senate staffer says they're not going to call hunting preserve bill today. Putting it off until next week.

Looks like we had some effect. Write your Senators again...and the Governor.

Here's the link to find your senator and his email address:

https://iga.in.gov/legislative/2014/legislators/

Indiana Senate delays high-fence hunting bill

The Senate sponsor of a bill that would formally legalize hunting of fenced-in deer in Indiana unexpectedly held the legislation on Thursday.

The move sets up a possible vote early next week on House Bill 1453, which would allow the four fenced deer-hunting preserves in Indiana to continue to operate, but would also allow new preserves to open. The last day to call bills this year is Wednesday.

HB 1453 faces an uncertain future, and possible changes next week.

It passed the House earlier this session, but last year, a similar bill failed to advance in the Senate by a single vote.

Plus, last week, a Senate committee added language to the House bill that would allow new preserves larger than 160 acres to open. The amendment outraged animal-rights activists, wildlife groups and hunting associations who despise the idea of allowing even current preserves to stay in business, let alone new ones.

The bill has support from the state's powerful Farm Bureau, some business associations and the state's deer breeders who sell animals to be hunted at preserves.

Should the bill pass and be signed by Gov. Mike Pence, it would end a decade-old stalemate over whether the captive-deer hunting industry could legally operate in Indiana.

In 2005, the Department of Natural Resources issued a ban on captive deer hunting. The preserves sued. Recent court rulings have found the DNR overstepped its authority.

Under the current version of the bill, owners of Indiana's fenced hunting preserves would be forbidden from selling a deer for a hunt within 24 hours of it being sedated, and only animals born and raised on Indiana deer farms could be hunted.

The amended bill also includes a provision that says Indiana taxpayers wouldn't have to pay a preserve owner if state officials kill his or her deer in the event of a disease outbreak.

Rep. Sean Eberhart, R-Shelbyville, the bill's primary author in the House, has said such language was inserted to appease opponents of high-fence hunting who cite worries about unethical hunts as well as disease risks associated with the interstate trade in trophy deer.

It's not clear whether Pence would sign off on a bill that could expand the state's hunting-preserve industry.

In early 2013, the governor's spokeswoman said he was concerned about an expansion of high-fence hunting, but he would be willing to have "an open mind about legislative efforts to permit existing facilities to continue to operate."

http://www.indystar.com/story/news/...delays-high-fence-hunting-bill/25530153/

Bump

As I understand it (and it's very confusing)the word on the street is that the bill very likely would have failed. To avoid a failure the sponsor sent it back to second reading for amendment which is very unusual.

If I were a betting man, I'd say they will remove the option for new facilities to open. That's what Pence wants. That's not enough. Write your Senators again and ask them to vote no on HB1453. Let the Supreme Court have their say first. If we need this bill to control those facilities we can do it next year.

The following letter was sent to all Indiana Senators by the Indiana Wildlife Federation:

***

Confirming Hunters and Conservationists Oppose HB1453 Hunting Preserves - Canned Hunting

Dear Senator,

This letter is to confirm that the statewide organizations of hunters and conservationists listed below oppose HB1453 Hunting Preserves, aka Canned Hunting.

Indiana Wildlife Federation
Indiana Division of the Izaak Walton League of America
Indiana Sportsmen’s Round Table
Indiana Deer Hunters Association
Indiana Bow Hunter Association
Indiana Conservation Alliance
Quality Deer Management Association
Indiana Conservation Officer Organization
National Wild Turkey Federation - Indiana
Numerous additional local and regional conservation and hunting organizations

The potential amendment to limit the bill to the four existing preserves is not a fix for a terrible bill. The false message that hunting preserves are unregulated and need regulation is misleading the Senate. Hunting preserves are currently illegal and the four that are operating are doing so under a court injunction.

To pass HB1453 legalizing canned hunting just to address the issue with the existing four is not the right decision.

Legalizing the four will lead to expansion of canned hunting.

Canned hunting is not ethical hunting and violates fair chase, threatens the health of the wild deer herd, and puts taxpayers and sports men’s and women’s dollars at risk.

Thank you for your thoughtful consideration of the hunter/conservationist position.

Sitting here waiting for the Senate session to start...

http://iga.in.gov/legislative/2015/senate

I dropped another email to Tallian...still no response from her other that a auto generated generic e-mail .........

Pick up the phone and call..... A least you know someone has heard you!!! Maybe lips service but you nerve know!!!

Still sitting here waiting...

3:15 start they are saying

After a 2 hour delay we got 2 amendments to the original bill. Amendment#2 was unclear (to me at least) but seemed to say weapons would be the same as in the wild and electronic hunting was banned. Amendment #3 was strictly about changing the language to only allow the 4 existing preserves to operate.

Still a bad bill. It still prohibits DNR from making rules. Write your Senator and the Governor to stop HB1453. A bad bill is still a bad bill.

HJ

P.S. Probably vote on this tomorrow or the next day.

I listened in and what I found most interesting (if I understood it correctly) is that while there are only 4 preserves to be allowed, the license for those preserves can be sold or leased to other operators. And if that occurs (and a different site is to be used) the other site has to be closed down.

I listened as well and that is what I understand it to be. Also, dropped the acreage to 100 since 1 more more has that much now.

Question: Suppose one of the 4 get CWD does this give the owner to keep in business at another location? All they have to do is move


This bill in just bad.

Indiana senator waters down captive-deer hunt bill

http://indy.st/1GDZf6Y

Let's be realistic...this bill is designed to get the 4 preserves legal. It always was. Next session they will come back and ask to open it up to everyone. Stop it now or you may not be able to stop it until it is too late.

It is on the list of bills going to 3rd (and final) reading today. Posted time is once again 1:30 PM.

The Deer pimps are already crying foul.... Lol

https://m.facebook.com/Indianadeerherdmanagement?refid=17&_ft_&__tn__=C

They may not get to it today...

Tomorrow is the last day to pass bills on 3rd reading...

I am at the Statehouse now. I would say you are right Jack. Lots of big issues to address on second reading today. It's been 2 1/2 hours and they are still on the 1st bill.

7:45 PM and HB1453 is next up....

If Messmer, Houchin, Yoder or Leising is your Senator, I am sorry for you.

Growing list of senators to speak...

This is probably gonna pass...

With this legislature Jack, I have to wonder about the citizens of Indiana. But, with the fact that Indiana citizens as a whole have one of the lowest voting percentages of all states, it pretty much says it all. In essence, get a few special interest friends together and you can get elected. I can only hope that there is a complete change in the representation in the legislature next time around.

We won - the bill is defeated 27-22

yep... close again. My senator WILL be hearing about his YES vote!!!!!

Amen... The Indiana senate has voted down a bill that would legalize four high fence hunting preserves. Up to Supreme Court now

where can we see the vote??

Yea, I want to see who voted what ..... so, where exactly does this leave the whole darn mess ??

I don't think the vote sheet is up yet but here is the bill:

http://iga.in.gov/legislative/2015/bills/house/1453#

How do you think I feel Jack?... I have Eberhart as my State Rep., Leising as my State Sen., and Pence as our Governor...

Yeah, you guessed it, I'm pretty much screwed from all three sides...

Be sure to let them know how you feel.

I know Senator Leising thinks the high fence issue must be solved this way but let the Supreme Court rule first. Then if they rule for the high fence companies, start getting legislation together and do it right. Cutting the DNR out of the process really cost votes on this.

HJ

Isn't that the million dollar question?

Will the state take this to the Supreme Court and if they do and lose, and then try to outlaw these 4 preserves, won't that start the process all over again?

And will the 4 preserves continue on as they have during that process?

The 4 preserves have been operating under the court injunction since 2005. The case is now before the state supreme court whether they agree to hear it or not is the question. If not it reverts to the appellate court decision in favor of the preserves. At that point the legislature should get back in the ball game and either legalize it or ban it. I expect we will see the same bill next year.

Jack, have you heard anything about the states appeal??

There is some rumor floating around I heard!!

I probably heard the same rumor. May know more tomorrow.

IND. COURTS - SUPREME COURT DECLINES TRANSFER IN HIGH-FENCED HUNTING CASE
The General Assembly this year failed to enact legislation either banning or permitting high-fence hunting ranches. The result - the next move was up to the Supreme Court, as reported in this ILB post on April 22nd:

The preserves argue that the DNR doesn’t have oversight over the deer on their properties, which they consider to be livestock.
Recently, two lower courts have sided with the preserves.

[ILB: Trial courts in two different counties, Harrison and Owen, have issued conflicting rulings; the State appealed the Harrison County ruling that had held that deer are livestock and not subject to DNR regulation. The COA affirmed.]

But a political fight is imminent no matter which way the state’s top justices rule, should they decide to take up the case.

If the judges side with preserves, the hunting methods on high-fenced properties would remain unregulated. An owner could allow a client to shoot a drugged deer in a tiny pen, or only minutes after unloading it from a truck.

The General Assembly could find itself back at the same impasse. * * *

But if the judges rule that the DNR does have oversight, it’s hardly a sure thing that the DNR will do what it tried to do a decade ago: make the preserves extinct in Indiana.

Politics will come into play in that scenario, too.

No one considered that the Supreme Court would decline to hear the case, leaving the COA decision as the law in Indiana. But that is what happened; here, thanks to Dan Carden of the NWI Times, is the June 5, 2015 order of the Supreme Court, on the petition to transfer the COA decision., Whitetail Bluff.
Chief Justice Rush and Justice Dickson voted for transfer, Justices Rucker and David voted to deny, and Justice Massa did not participate. So it was a 2-2 split and when the Court is evenly divided, transfer is deemed denied by virtue of App. Rule 58(C).

For more background, start with this post from April 15th, including this quote from the FWJG:

“This provides a rigid framework for four existing preserves,” said Sen. Sue Glick, R-LaGrange. “Without this bill, there is no regulation in place.”
That makes a decision by the Indiana Supreme Court on pending litigation huge. The legal battle has been ongoing for 10 years.

If the court agrees to accept an appeal and sides with the DNR, the preserves would be shut down and no new ones could open. If the court agrees with the appellate ruling, the preserves can exist with no rules until the legislature can act next year.

Posted by Marcia Oddi on June 5, 2015 05:57 PM
Posted to Indiana Courts


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