You guys still think the DNR isn't going to change the opening dates soon..........then why hasn't the DNR updated the opening dates beyond next year..??? Might be a coincidence but nothing is listed past 2018. h.h.

https://secure.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/2715.htm

It's never been posted more then a year out as long as I can remember......

Thanks hornharvester!

Not so Brew.....they had dates up for 4 years two years ago because I had to look in order to plan a series of social events and I didnt want them to fall on the opener. h.h.

Ok I must missed that ...... but generally it's year by year,guess there always a exception now in then.

Like I stated in my earlier post I bet some real money the gunseason date and length doesn't change anytime soon!

Horn....This is the information I usually see posted this time of year!

My understanding is that the DNR is in more of a "maintain" mode as far as the deer herd is concerned. And based on that, I can't see any major changes to the seasons happening in the very near future.

I read in the DNR website that the firearms deer season is always scheduled for the first Saturday after Veteran's Day (Nov 11) each year. I use that information to schedule my annual trip to Southern Indiana to hunt with my Marine Corps buddy who I have known for 50 years since serving together in Vietnam. I'm one of your pesky NR hunters from New Hampshire! Hunting in Indiana is like a whitetail Nirvana compared to New England hunts.

Loss of suitable habitat is always going to be the single biggest reason why deer numbers will be negatively impacted.


Why, do you have a guilty one? :p

113,293 ... with maybe another 500(?) taken in the Reduction zone season ...

133.492 Now.....as we are entering a maintenance/maintain phase of the reduction mode started in 2012 I would think we will be around this figure for a few years to come.

Hard to believe that in 2003 we dreamed of a day when the state was capable of producing a consistent harvest of over 110,000.

http://www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/8367.htm#deerharvest

113,525 right now. Urban zone season still open for a while.

Last minute checkins from Sunday ... ??

113,558 Now....probably is but if the Urban reduction zones are killing that many per day we might get to that 119,000

113,478 now. Oh no we are going backwards. Not only are the live deer disappearing from the field, the dead ones are disappearing from our freezers. Come to think of it, I haven't checked my meat supply in the past couple days.

Haven't been on here in a while but if you don't think the opening day numbers affected the totals then you are nuts. Add a normal opening day to the totals and no one is complaining

113,471 now....still dropping

Someone suggested the early archery numbers are up. Don't forget, early archery season was six days longer compared to a year ago....and those were six rut days.

Didn't see where anyone pointed out the late anterless firearms season (where applicable) was nearly twice as long as a year ago.

I get the opening day argument...but only to an extent. There was ALOT of firearms deer hunting opportunity remaining after opening day. I heard the day two harvest was down as well...which really makes me scratch my head....

Day one of firearms was down (as compared to last season) roughly 19,000 deer due in no small part to the statewide high winds that day. Day two of firearms was down very little (as compared to last season) by roughly 1,400 deer. Day 3-16 was up this season (as compared to last season) by roughly 8,500 deer.

Early archery was up (there was an extra 5 days this season) by roughly 5,000 deer .

Muzzleloader was also up this season by roughly 2,000 deer.

Late antlerless (with fewer counties but extra days) was up a few hundred deer.

As far as the opener of firearms season goes, we all know that day one is THE day and there was no way that deficit was going to be made up completely over the rest of the firearms season as there are many hunters who hunt only opening weekend and sat out that Saturday due to the weather.

All the other days that were up was probably due t”Catch up” from lost opportunities opening day you think 🤔

I would imagine days 3-16 of the firearms season being up by roughly 8,500 deer (as compared to last season) were likely hunters trying to make up for the lost opener. But nothing is like the opener. That one day normally accounts for 33% of the total deer killed in the entire firearms season. Cut it by 19,000 deer (as compared to last season) and that drops that 33% of total firearms season harvest to about 10%.

And you can't make all of that up, it's just not going to happen.

But jjas.......... you're wanting us all to believe that "19,000 more deer would have been shot on opening day" ?? ...... you're not taking into consideration how much lower that number would have been already EVEN with perfect weather conditions due to the overharvesting, several seasons of rifles and more days/weeks to shoot does from years prior.....

Some are banking on the myth/fault/reason for low harvest is that Hoosier hunters pay for tags, pay for $500-$2500 in guns, pay for ammo, pay for traveling, pay for camo and clothing and trail cams, and treestands, etc, etc, etc, etc,............and only hunt one day of gun season on opening day Saturday. LOL!!


And those same "jjas's/people/hunters" tout that it only takes "one day to get 1/3 of the harvest completed with a gun"........... but cry "foul" if you say then "ok, we don't need as many gun days then do we".......

Such a "two faced" little bunch aren't they......

I'm not going back down the rabbit hole with you Dew...

No one on this forum wants it, and I'm not going to humor you by doing so...

Enjoy your evening...

Stay strong. You can do it. Maybe it'll go back under the bridge.

"Dew as I say not as I Dew".....O it's so fitting!

Early archery was up SIX days...all of those being rut days. I have no way of verifying the 5,000 number...but not at all surprised if the early archery harvest was up by adding six prime rut hunting days to the season. Where I hunted, November 7th through the 14th were incredible for buck movement. Last three days of early archery...not so much.

Where applicable, the late antlerless firearms season went from 7 days to 13 days comparatively.
Given the frigid temps, it will interesting to see the impact...or lack thereof.

For what it is worth, the property I hunt (800+ private acres) had the same eight gun hunters the first nine days of general firearms season. A year ago, all eight guys filled their buck tags. This year only two guys filled their buck tags. The timing of the opener made a major impact on the number and quality of bucks seen/killed.

IMO, the opening day weather on November 18th could have been perfect...and the harvest would have still been down substantially from last season's November 12th opener. Based on what I saw the 12th-14th...had general firearms opened on the 12th or 13th....that group would have fared significantly better...just like last year.

We had at least three different fawns on the farm this year carrying visible spots into October. I doubt any of the three weighed more than 40lbs by the firearms opener. Definitely late births. No coincidence in my mind this happened following the early firearm opener. Way too many bucks killed before they had a chance to breed.

The math is simple. If you have a 4:1 doe/buck ratio going in (probably very good for most areas in the state), so 40 does/10 bucks....and you kill five of each prior to peak breeding dates (1:1 being the average firearms season harvest ratio), your doe/buck ratio climbs to 7:1 (35/5). You just extended the rut into the winter months. Not good for the bucks. Not good for the does. Not good for the fawns. i.e. Not good for the deer herd as a whole.

But then again, when was the last time Indiana did anything good for the deer herd?

I won't dispute that this year's firearms season harvest of older bucks would likely have been down due to the late start date. How much? Who knows...But when you throw the lousy weather we had statewide on the opener on top of that, you get what we did...a opening day harvest cut by 75% (as compared to last year).

If you have 800 private acres to hunt and you're not happy with the buck/doe ratio, then why doesn't your group take more does or limit the number of bucks taken? We have a rough idea of how many deer are on the properties we hunt and we set goals on how many does and bucks we feel should be taken. When (if) those goals are met, those properties aren't hunted again that season.

I get your overall point. And yes, in a perfect world, no one would be in the woods during November and the deer could breed 100% naturally. But you and I both know that isn't going to happen as both bow and gun hunters want to hunt during that month.

And that is, was, and will likely continue to be, the major bone of contention here...

I don't think it's possible to have a herd with the sex ratio as out of whack as 4:1. Let's say you finish last year with 40 does and 10 bucks and a 1 fawns per doe average with a 50/50 birth rate. You start the next season with 60 does, 20 button bucks, and 10 bucks, 2:1. Next year 90 does, 30 button bucks, and 20 bucks, 1.8:1. Next year 135 does, 45 button bucks, and 30 bucks 1.8:1. This is assuming you kill every buck every year and never kill a doe. Based on harvest data that's not happening, so most areas are really close to 2:1 even if specific properties hold deer at different rates due to property characteristics. The bucks will find the does during the breeding period and return to their home range.

I can't dispute that there are areas within the state that have skewed buck/doe ratios, but I've looked at the harvest data for years and if you add the percentages of antlered deer and male fawns together it comes up to roughly 50% of the total number of deer killed year in and year out. So if on a male/female basis, the deer are being killed on a one to one ratio, you would think that it would be tough to have widespread ratios that far out of whack.

Never said I wasn't happy with the buck:doe ratio on the farm I hunt. We run alot of trail cameras 8-9 months out of the year to keep a good "inventory" on the local herd. Antlerless harvest decisions are based on inventory.

That said, even on 800 acres...it is difficult to
manage without outside influence. Some deer get killed on neighboring properties and a few get poached by trespassers I'm sure. We just can't take off work and patrol the property lines 40 days/year.

By our best estimates, the farm tends to run a ballpark 3:1 doe to buck ratio on any given year (not including fawns). I'm confident that is a much better ratio than the majority of the state. There may be pockets of very low deer density with better ratios...but who wants that?

Curious Dew...for years the average amount of harvest that one small opening day of firearm has accounted for roughly 30-35% of the total firearms season harvest. You truly believe we at minimum wouldn't have been back up and around that very consistent figure?

If you don't believe so, why not?

Thanks in advance. Also please don't write diatribe with off shoot points and such, just looking for the answers of the above. Thanks.

QDMA says Midwestern states typically run somewhere between 3:1 and 5:1 doe:buck ratio. That's why I used 4:1 in my example...middle of the road. Jim Mitchell once told the Indiana Deer Advisory Council that he believed Indiana averaged a 6:1 doe:buck ratio. That was roughly the same time frame the one buck rule was initially adopted...so I doubt that ratio holds true today.

I agree the bucks will find the does...it just might take multiple breeding cycles for that to happen. Multiple breeding cycles are bad for adult deer (additional stress on bucks and does during the worst part of the year weather/food wise). Multiple breeding cycles also spread out the fawn drop....which is absolutely terrible for fawn recruitment. A shorter fawn drop period equals less fawns falling prey to coyotes.

My message here...although I doubt many are listening...is the general firearms season should NEVER open until after peak breeding dates. It would not take much of a shift in timing to make that happen.

open the gun season the Saturday before Thanksgiving, run it for 1 week, then shut it down .... either completely end the late Dec. kill all the Doe's season or drastically cut back the counties in it, drop more counties to 3 AL bonus's or less ... not everyone lives in a idealistic world where they have control over what is killed on certain properties ...

jeff valovich I've read similar comments on this forum (and others) plus on facebook, so I went back and looked @ the data from 2009/16 and what I found I think some will find surprising.

From 2009/2011 (the last seasons I have data for before the late antlerless season was implemented), antlerless deer killed with a firearm (firearms and muzzleloader seasons) made up (on average) 74% of the total antlerless harvest or 59,000 antlerless deer per season.

From 2012/2016 (after the late antlerless season was implemented), antlerless deer killed with a firearm (firearms, muzzleloader and late antlerless season) made up (on average) 70% of the total antlerless harvest or 54,000 antlerless deer per season.

In other words....on a statewide basis, the late antlerless season hasn't increased the antlerless harvest (on average) by either percentage or number of deer with a firearm.

In actuality, the antlerless harvest with a firearm has just been spread out among the firearms, muzzleloader and late antlerless seasons and that has actually resulted in lower percentages and actual numbers (on average) since the late antlerless season was implemented.

A new weapon (crossbow) was also added in 2012. More weapon choices will make the harvest percentages by weapon drop by default.

This is strictly about the number of antlerless deer killed with a firearm. And people have been saying since the inclusion of the late antlerless season that it's up, and overall, it's down on both a percentage and numbers basis since 2012.

Point being...if you did away with the late antlerless season by making all counties a 3 the way some have suggested be done, what would likely happen is we would see a rise in harvest numbers of antlerless deer in the firearms and muzzleloader seasons to offset the loss of that season.

BTW, it's impossible to tell how much of an impact crossbows have had on the antlerless harvest as the data isn't broken down that way.

What's the "consistent figure" you're referring to?? The 30-35% total harvest of opening day firearms? Or........ the total actual number deer shot that day "for years"?