Our deer could def be managed better.
But nobody ever wants to face the fact that Hoosiers are hunting and fishing FANATICS and compared to other states have VERY LITTLE access...very little water to fish and very little land available for the masses to hunt. Leasing has made this much worse in my opinion. That said, this is America, and if a landowner wants to lease their land they should be able to.

I would like to see our state pursue CRP and walk-in areas contracts with landowners so they get PAID but we can ALL have access rather than just some rich out of state guy or a lawyer with a company expense count leasing land.

Voluntary surveys such as the one on Bowsite are not considered to be scientifically valid nor representative of the population. But they have some qualitative value. They become a problem when they are presented as representative.

Perception often is reality so we may think that overall the population is very dissatisfied with deer hunting in Indiana if all we read is the Bowsite survey.

The Deer Hunter Survey that is reflected in the county-by-county results in the DNR's 2016 Indiana White-Tailed Deer Summary report paint a different picture where most responses were in the positive range.

The bowsite survey was not intended to be scientific nor to analyze any one specific state in detail. The goal was to survey nationwide members who may have hunted deer in multiple states last year. And thereby get a general feeling as to better and worse experiences in various states with regards to numbers of deer, quality of deer, and beliefs about those state's management of deer. I doubt anyone expects any state's wildlife officials to make management decisions based on the bowsite survey

Let's be clear about the survey Jeff posted.The survey is on a national scale. All states are included. When I first saw the survey, I figured Indiana would get 8-12 responses. The number exceeded 120 responses when I counted yesterday. Indiana was tied for dead last at the time. Tells me there are alot more lurkers than posters on these websites. Heck, I check this website 3-4 times/week, but this is my first post in a year.
Regardless, the survey results echo the sentiments of most deer hunters I've talked with over the past 2-3 years.

My take on the status of the Indiana deer herd is far from optimistic. The harvest is on a downward spiral since prop 2 went into affect. Big surprise there! Too much...too fast..and no safety net. The bonus county system is a joke...always has been. Tell me again what percentage of deer hunters kill more than two deer per year? We're going to end up down roughly 20% from year one results...with the lowest overall harvest since 2003. This, despite longer seasons, longer range weapons and virtually unlimited tags. How does that NOT throw a flag in everyone's minds? BTW, you don't average a downturn to soften the blow. Would you do the same thing if we were talking about your annual income? Such logic is exactly why I cringe at the thought of the public input process driving decisions.

IMO, the primary reason our harvest is still six figures is private deer management. Both public land and non-managed private land hunters benefit from adjacent private management. Never thought I'd say it, but thank God for leasing! Might as well get on board folks, because at this rate, those who lease/own will soon be responsible for the majority of the deer herd (if not already). Kudos to those that fly their middle fingers at Indiana deer mis-management!

We, as hunters, find ourselves in a strange position. For years, we've preached hunter recruitment is necessary for the survival of the sport. We are now facing the even bigger threat of retaining our recruits. The number of people saying their hunting kids are giving up should be disturbing to us all. Please go back and read bean's post.

Got that off my chest...I'll go back to lurking now.

Very well put.


----


Let me be clear as my last post may have come across as to just dismiss such a survey as worthless...as it is not. However, it truly did just tap into an extremely small group, which then told others they knew would share the same thoughts to go post as well. I don't question any of the comments or feelings posted by any of them as I (to the best of my knowledge) don't hunt with or by any of them.

Some say it does represent hunting as a whole in the state...I simply will never pretend to have enough knowledge to state anything not inside the immediate areas I hunt. I hear extremely split opinions (nearly 50/50) from all my hunting acquaintances and friends...so I would only argue anyone stating either extreme as fact is missing the boat most likely.

From what I seen on another site where the survey link is actually posted is no one needs to be a member and any anyone can take the survey multiple times with no real name!

But as you stated it does give a pulse of some honest folks.

According to the DNR's 2016 Indiana White-Tailed Deer Summary in 2016 91.85% of successful hunters killed 1 or 2 deer.

Another 5.6% killed 3 deer.

1.5% killed 4 deer. 1% killed more than 4.

So roughly 8% of successful hunters killed more than 2 deer.

One step further....since the bundle is so popular and good for 3 deer. Only 2.4% of hunters harvested above the bundle amount...

Maybe I missed something but I think those numbers are misleading because they are focused on the % of successful hunters not the % of the harvest. If you total up the number of kills for for the hunters that killed 3+ deer you get 24538 deer. That is 20.5% of the total harvest. If you ask me that is pretty significant coming from 8% of the hunter population.

Furthermore that 8% is only the percent of successful hunters. When you consider the total # of hunters (314,283 per the data) it equates to 2.2% of the hunter population killing 20.5% of the deer.

I will echo what a couple of others have said. If you expect to let the State of Indiana manage your deer hunting, then look up Eisenstein's Definition of Insanity.

Buy or lease your hunting ground. Manage your own local herd ... yes it can be done.

Let the State continue to do it for you and you will continue to complain about crappy deer hunting.

The 314,283 is the numbers privileges not the hunter count....How would the DNR know the the number of land owners and life time hunters that only hunted and didn't kill anything?

Please explain...

Valid point Cody...but since the bundle is going nowhere really you need to state the % of the overall harvest represented by those taking 4 or more deer...which off hand I do not remember.

I used the wrong line. Let's try this again. In 2016 there were 10,186 deer that would not be covered by a bundle harvested (4th deer onward). That is roughly 8.5% of the total deer harvested. In 2016 there were 4,930 deer harvested above what could be accomplished with normal tags (5th deer onward) or roughly 4.1% of the total harvest.

It's tough to glean the total number of hunters.
There were 314,283 privileges. That is different than the total number of hunters.

169,801 licenses were sold.

But that doesn't count lifetime licenses. 21,371 deer were killed by Lifetime License holders.

Be extremely crude and not scientific but you could extrapolate a "decent guesstimate" by applying the success rate suspected amongst hunters to the known LTL holder harvests....however we don't know how many of those harvested multiples...and to be fair I'd suspect in the lifetime ranks we have some of the most successful hunters (more seasoned at least...not successful perhaps).

I edited that post before...I had used wrong line item on my spreadsheet. Truly extremely few deer harvested even with the need of a bonus tag honestly.

Ok then less than 4% of the hunters killed 20% of the deer. Still seems pretty significant to me.

I however also agree that moving around the bonus limits will have little effect and I manage my own property accordingly for what it's worth.

JB's one antlered one antlerless seems like the best approach to me.

100% correct. In my county they took us from a 4 bonus antlerless to a 2 bonus antlerless. Granted it did remove the special stupid war on does season, but the move was nothing more than a psychological game by the State. Very very very few hunters kill more than two does per year, so the move from 4 to 2 is simply a "warm and fuzzy" feels good move so the State can say "see hunters, we are reducing the limits to help you out. In reality, they didn't do chit to the herd management, but protected their bread and butter license sales in a game of smoke and mirrors.

Like I said ... manage your own land, screw the State.

JB has done this........ PAV has done this......... DEC has done this and .....

I have done this since 1991. Saw disaster coming as soon as we had to no longer draw to get a doe tag (remember those days?). So owning and leasing land that touches each other (locking up large areas), or was up against large tracts of "no hunting" ground became my formula.

People laughed at me at first as I spent much time and $$ to secure a "long LONG term" situation with these properties........ and then I managed them like I wanted.

I can remember in one area in particular I had 3 neighbors on my boundary lines back in the late 1990's due to plenty of deer and opps for all. Others around me shot and shot and shot and SHOT every year.....and they had devastating results as they "did what the State said they could do"...... and now last season we actually took a count of treestands on the property line of that same chunk of ground...... we found 51 stands and 6 ground blinds surrounding us.

It's remarkable how some real screwballs on this site will tell you "their way is the way to bliss" here in this state by leaving the regs the way they are.....and those same screwballs tell me how wrong I am in what I suggest as a management plan for this State. Yep.....I'm SOOOOO wrong, those 51 stands and 6 ground blinds are there because the way I manage is SOOOOOO terrible they just have to sit there and see how "bad" it is. LOL!!!

Go ahead.......... listen to Brew, jjas and others here that voted to get us right where we are at. And let them convince you their way is the way to stay...........

.......... and I'll show you another place where you can keep putting up treestand #52, 53, 54, etc on my fenceline and you can keep grinding your teeth on those stands as you watch from the outside all the "bad hunting management" that I preach about on the inside......

Keep your 30+ days of gun season to just do as the state wants if you want more pure H E L L....... don't confuse me with someone that cares about the pain you dealt yourself as you listened to the Brew's and jjas's of this State.

You want change? Get off you azz and quit typing here....... If you don't know what to do.......PM me and I'll tell you exactly what to do.

Dew,

Even when I haven't posted, you always include me.

I love how you manage to constantly complain about the length of the firearms season, yet last season when it suited your needs, you had no problem filling your buck tag on day 15 of the firearms season...

Now...that's classic "Dew as I say, not as I Dew"...

But the last line is my favorite... A couple of observations....

Perhaps you should take you own advice as far as the typing thing goes...

And...

After 6+ years...if you knew "exactly what to do",
wouldn't you have done it by now?

"Even when I haven't posted you always include me" .......<<<<<< Did you really just type that? LOL!!!!!!! Ummmm..... can someone please point out to jjas how many times he's posted on this thread. Poor little fella doesn't seem to have the ability to work the scroll back option here.

But I will say....... it's not so much about "you" jjas, it's about a few "like you" that want to continue to defend what you forced the IDNR to do about 6 years ago as a good plan. And now that the carnage you helped create is now on YOUR plate...... it Whizzzzzzes you off that you can't make your Zhit stick to someone else. It's your turd to fix now..... and you don't like that...... plain and simple.....

And when people like me and other States that don't need 10, 15, 20 or 30+ days to kill a buck prove year after year it CAN be done...... and effective to still manage a herd unlike you say can happen........ you're Beedy little head glows like a lit match stick ....... and you post your disdain all over threads.....but apparently forget you've done that.......LOL!!

And what grinds you even more is when a person like me has 3 days to hunt at the end of Firearms Season last year due to work and family schedule... and pops a brute again, and proves ya just don't need 30+ days or a full 15 day firearms season to get a buck...... so you then focus on "it took me 15 days to get my buck" so it then fits your filthy agenda...... and there wasn't even any mud on my boots for the first 12 of those 15 days last year. You are pathetic...... and you will continue to show that side of you here...... you just can't help yourself.... and we all know it. Keep twisting facts to try and make something that didn't happen or factually not true.... somehow "real" in your head. Did you 'eva' even once consider if the firearms season was only 7, 8 or 9 days...... I still would have gotten to work in the 3 days I took off to hunt? Nope...... you DARE not go down that path in your head.... it would just plain be too painful for you....

And finally....... We all knew when the ink dried on Prop 2.0 that you helped force the IDNR to do and to happen, we would be hauling this crap around for at least 5 years to see what the tragic results would look like. So...... if you now still think that allot of us "still don't know what to do" to change that now that the results are in.........

........ that's right where/what we'd like you to be thinking.

Dew,

You can try and justify why you say one thing and do another, but the reality is you don't want other hunters to have access to a firearms season that lasts 16 days. But....when you had work or family issues, you had no problem taking full advantage of the length and timing of that same firearms season just so you could put another head on the wall and then brag about it....

And now to address your quote, below..
So that's the plan? Posting 6+ years of "just wait till next year" tag lines that haven't amounted to squat, in an attempt to lull me into a state of inaction and THEN make your move?

That is quite the plan....

You're a regular Dr. Evil aren't you....

Yep....... I happen to have a life like most that whenever the deer gun season is planned in August, September, April or November......and no matter how long or short it is (7 or 100 days).... I still get to decide when I took/take those 3 days I needed to kill that buck.

And you can't handle that....


And when I post up my deer that I shoot....... you call it "bragging" as if it's something bad I do, but get pages of compliments from others. Kinda like DEC when he posts up all his Huge Turkey kills from all over the US, and we compliment him 'cause he's a dang lethal killer on those birds....and maybe the best Turkey Hunter we have here on this Forum. When he puts up those pics he's not bragging......he's sharing his harvest and demonstrating his pretty cool ability to just flat out Turkey Hunt with the best of them...... year after year after year. I and others understand that pic/video/skill level he has and applaud him for that which he deserves and has work dammmm hard for.

I kinda think no matter what I put up you spin it as something "bad I do"..... especially when it comes to big bucks I shoot, or holding you responsible for the mess you've contributed to in our deer hunting across this State. Sorry you feel that way jjas. Maybe someday you'll be brave enough to just even show us YOUR pic.....put a face to the "jjas name"......but for now we just get your orange Cheeto covered finger prints left from a coward on your keyboard as the "expert" on who is a "bragger" and not worth listening to.

And to tie things up..... This has not been a process of "wait till next year" by me....... this has been a process of exposing what you helped do to the IDNR the last several years, this year and years to come if you have it your way, and the disaster you helped create and compound each year. I'm not here to lull you into a state of inaction.... I'm here hoping you stay active, keep posting, and keep defending the mess you've help make in this State........

Those reading will figure out what to do with all your antics and "gospel" next.........

We just need to keep you in the limelight.....

Dew Sure you do...Just like the firearms hunters who want to continue to enjoy their season that you've tried to screw with, do as well. And when you consider the fact that you killed that buck on the last Saturday of the firearms season after spending the last 6+ years complaining about the length of that season (and demeaning many of the hunters who want to protect it), well... it fully illustrates your hypocrisy...

So while you continue to use your usual strategy of going off on another long winded diatribe to try and confuse the facts, just know that some people on this site actually remember what you've said and done in the past...and when your hypocrisy rears it's head again, you'll likely get called on it...

You call it "hypocrisy"....... I call it "I got to choose the days I hunt" and the length of season does NOT determine what three days I pick to hunt. You refuse to acknowledge no matter how short or how long the season is..... the hunter still chooses WHEN within those allotted days to take advantage of the timing of the hunt day/days they want to hunt. You're just another toy here on this forum that is trying to make a senseless point that just because a hunter chose 3 days later in the season no matter how long or short the season was, they SOMEHOW in your beedy little head needed all those days prior to the days they chose to hunt......LOL!!!!!!!!...... and as you type and then frantically revise what you type 5,6, or 7 times before you like how it looks in your head....... we all get another glimpse of how desperate you are to hold/defend a gun season that has wreaked havoc on our herd for many years now with 30+ days and longer range weapons that you support. You could care less about anything but protecting your coward identity ...... and keeping hunters that are suffering in this situation you helped create in still more years of pain.

We know how to handle you...... and THAT situation......

I'm countin' on it little buddy......

First of all....I love the way you try to rationalize your hypocrisy....It's truly hilarious!

Next...your constant need to resort to childish name calling and thinly veiled threats shows how weak your position really is....as usual.

Dew If the "we" is the same "we" that you've been talking about for the last 6+ years...I'd say there isn't much to worry about...

BTW, gun season opens on Nov 17 next season and runs for it's usual 16 days...Be sure to mark day 15 on your calendar as I'm sure you don't want to miss it...

I'm just gonna say it. You two are ridiculous. Stop now. You are embarrassing yourselves.

I know, I don't have to read it but I can't help myself. It's like when somebody says, "Ooh that stinks so bad...smell it." And instinctively I do

You're 100% correct. It is ridiculous. I told myself the last time this crap started that I would ignore it...

But I didn't. I should have, and I will do my best to try to not go down the rabbit hole again...

Thanks.

I had just got my popcorn popped too John LOL.....

Myself I want to be able to hunt more than 3 Days Kill a buck and be done ! Hunting is more than that to me Sounds to me like some people hunt just for the Kill I don’t I like being able to hunt any day of the season and like being able to choose the day I want to Kill
With a Short season you hunt and kill because you have to because you only have a couple days to get it done
I don’t manage my farm for bucks I manage for deer . Don’t name deer , have a hit list None of that stuff . And don’t like the idea of managing my farm for your bucks a Agenda to grow them . If you want to fine but leave me out of it .

We really need a "Like" button.

These guys and one other show no respect whatsoever for one another. It's one thing to disagree, state your opinion, even argue...but the name calling and constantly replying with an entire page of past arguments?

I feel like a lot of people whine too much about the deer herd...but if I saw them at the Boat show I'd gladly talk to them for a half hour and make sure that they knew me disagreeing isn't personal.

I of course do not want to get into any argument, but I highly agree with what Bean says. I hunt close to him so our issues are very alike. I, myself, had a very blessed deer season and was able to take my first big buck and a couple older does. I saw a good amount of deer this year on the farms I hunt (not as much as years past but still a decent amount). Many of my fellow hunters did not have a good season with little to no success and I know that most of them put a lot of time in the woods. I believe that some areas are more highly populated with deer than others. Around here, the farming community puts an impact on the deer because there are farmers who tend to take out deer habitat, and sometimes what I believe is too much. I have noticed a lot of habitat loss lately due to farm ground gain. BUT it's the farmers property so it's more than his right. Another big factor is the loss of predator control. The coyotes here are extremely abundant. I did not get a single fawn on trail cam all year and neither did some of my hunting friends. I did however find two dead fawns over the course of the summer who had been eaten clean by coyotes. More predator control is definitely needed and I hope that more hunters start to hunt them. Just in my innocent opinion, I also believe that reducing the number of antlerless tags (at least around our area) would be a tad efficient because there are a lot of people who shoot whatever they see first and repeat the process time and time again because they can and have the tags in their pocket. We are a high amish area and they tend to shoot what they see (which it is their right) but shooting every doe in a, suppose an 8 doe group, is not going to help the population. These are just a few little issues that I and many of the hunters here agree on that need to be handled. Less deer habitat destruction, more coyote control, and maybe just a tad less doe tags?

Magnum, excuse me for hijacking this post but if you are still looking for ladder stands Rural King had 100.00 stands for 38.00 two days ago. h.h.

I think I'll save/capture this quote for a later date...

MUST. RE. SPOND.

(be strong...resist the troll)

CAN'T. LET. TROLL. HAVE. LAST. WORD.

(don't take the bait)

IT. INSULTED. MY. MANHOOD.

(it is nothing)

BUT. IT. MIGHT. THINK. IT. WON.

(it didn't)

Bahhhhhhhaaa best post in a while !!!!!