The company I work for is "maintaining" overseas profits during a major economic downturn. Some would say we're not growing overseas. I believe the only way we are maintaining profits is due to increased market share (we are growing) ...and this will become evident over time.

The state in which I live/hunt is "maintaining" annual deer harvest numbers. Some would say we're not damaging the herd. I believe the only way we are maintaining harvest numbers is due to increased opportunity/longer range weapons (we are doing damage) .....and this will become evident over time.

Again, I hope I am wrong!

What is forgotten here with numbers is a couple of points............

1. How many deer were taken that would have been out of range with our other hunting tools? My neighbor took a TOAD of a buck opening morning with a 318 yard shot, he admits that that deer would not have come within range with gun he used last year. Heard from a youth hunter who killed his first, a doe, at 225 yards with a 30-06. His dad said "shoot the bullet can reach it", would not have said that last year with a slug gun or PCR. And who knows how many other long range shots were taken and a wound and lost deer occurred.

2. Most importantly we had legislative action on a wildlife rule! Oue IDNR took the very same rule package to the people and it did not gain enoug support to approve the HPR. A legislator and his sons then develop a statute that over rides IDNR rules and policy. They left out SEVERAL deer hunting rifles(.270,25-06,6mm,.257) yet inckuded a pistol round 40sw which has far too small knock down power for deer. Sportsmen lost big time! Now we have an open door to legislative change to all hunting and fishing rules as we know them.

Use the numbers anyway you like but the Sportsmen lost! IDNR can not change statute, 5 years minimum and we know it will never change anyway...........

JB how did you guys do at your farm this year? You guys usually kill some nice ones.

Without knowing the Archery kill numbers to date, I would bet they are down when comparing previous two seasons (hot weather stunk it up)..... it was just shown the Gun numbers were up (as predicted). due to the rifles ?... we still have the "kill all the Does late gun season" left, and of course ML, late archery usually dosnt produce much..... I will predict around 124,000+ for the full season, as the deer reduction zones will take their toll, but to a smaller extent in Jan ....

Parrot we are down on big bucks harvested, target bucks have not cooperated. I have passed the same 140 plus 8 three times so far. My rule is if I let you walk once... you get free pass for the season pics of him later, 15 yards on last day of gun.

Does will eat just fine if a target deer doesn't show..

I've been hunting the same ground since 03. Through these 14 seasons I have definitely noticed less deer, and less bucks. In my opinion, the huge bonus limit has hurt the population to the point that I know a few guys who have lost interest because they aren't seeing anything good like they used to.
With that being said, this year has been different. I have seen more deer, and more nice bucks than I have in 10 years. Might just be luck as others close by haven't seen much this year.

Well, all I know is the local Fish and Wildlife areas are not what they used to be.....Kingsbury is 7280 acres, some water of course, used to kill upwards of around 300 deer yearly, last season they had 93 !! ..... Jasper Pulaski Fish and Wildlife 8142 acres, some water..used to be in the high 200's, had 126 last season(2015), 112 for 2014 ... no idea where either is at this season as neither has numbers up ...

I hunt NE Vigo Co and this is the first season in 11 years that I haven't harvested a deer or at least seen deer close enough to take, but passed on. I haven't heard even a quarter of the number of shots being taken around me either. I've seen three deer total all year, two does and a small buck, too far out and moving too fast. My father and I hunted Turkey Run 11/28-29...didn't see a single deer or any sign of any. It's certainly worrying me.

I did the Dunes hunt this year (why is beyond me as I said I'd never do it again)... I'm done with the park hunts for sure this time...lol... Anyways, I had preset my stand this time around a week in advance (a portable).. and of course some old over the hill geeser set up about 125-150yds to my front left, just north of where I killed that 160"er in 2012... had another guy to my front right 150yds away in a climber and another 250yds to my right in a ladder stand(he killed a single Doe), these two both left at noon wheelin' the one guys Doe out..(buddies I guess).. This old guy cut me off from the trail I knew they'd come in from... at 8:09 I heard a doe snort, looked up and he shot her and she ran and died 17yds away, to my back left..... 30 seconds later I see another deer on the same trail, he shoots again, wounds a small little 90lb busted rack spikey thing, it also runs right at me, its right leg floppin' around, I drop it in its tracks 20 yds to my front left as it comes by for the guy....so now, I have two dead deer that arnt mine, 20 yds from me....DRATS !!.. so he finally gets down, limps over and looks up at me and says "How the heck am I going to get these out of here" ?? ........ Well S O a B !! .... I mean good for him he got two deer, but guess who ended up dragging both 100+yds to the front trailhead....YUP, you guessed it....Me !! (I'm such a nice guy...lol..)....he tried, he really did try to help, but after 10 or so yards he was gasping, wheezing so bad, I thought he'd croak right there, I told him if you collapse, I aint giving you mouth to mouth...lol.... so, I took over, got the Doe to the trail head, he sat down panting/wheezing away, I went back and brought up the other.... I said as for dressing them out, your own your own.......I went back to my tree, left him there to do the rest.... he finally called the office, and they came with their Gator and took him and the deer to the check in....the Am was shot, I sat till 3pm saw zilch......went back Tues, sat till noon, saw zilch ....pulled the stand and went home...

They only had 24 killed the first day and 4 or so the second day....28-30 total..... Yep, I'll say it again, I'm done with the park hunts...lol...

That sounds just like every year of opening weekend on public ground where I hunt. LOL. I don't think people realize how lucky they are to have their own private land to hunt and not have to hunt "pressured deer" and have to compete with every other Joe blow or Betty Sue out there. I think public land is getting hammered more and more every year due to so much leasing. I too hate and hopefully never will hunt a park hunt again.

I'll say it again.. whether you own it or lease it, cherish the private land your on, and If you lease it, treat it better than the landowner ever will..... I miss having good private to myself....

look above ^^^ and you'll see where two F&W areas have plumeted to.... yea, I got a nice buck off a F&W area, but havnt seen an antlered deer there since, and very few AL's either... as a matter of fact, the one I killed was the ONLY antlered beer Ive seen there all season, and Ive been in some choice locations.... very few rubs and very few scrapes and trails look dead... maybe in late season as guys bug out, it will get better ... I doubt it .. they just aint there ...

I always tell myself this when I hunt... If I kill a buck that is ONE deer taken from the local population, period... However, when I kill a doe that is anywhere from 2-4 deer lost from the local population, (doe + 1-3 fawns)... If you take two does then it really adds up...

So if you are not seeing much deer in your area then it is probably best you let does walk since it is them that are going to bring back your local population...

X100

One of our areas we hunt has taken 13 deer this year...... 7 of those have been taken with HP rifles over 225 yards. 1/2 of the harvest in that area would not have happened without the HP in their hands.

Numbers of deer are way down....... the kill with the HP's will make it appear herd is not down significantly. If just 20% of our harvest is deer taken over 200 yards by the HP's and those would be deer not taken usually....... we just damaged the herd again severely.... and the ones that wanted or don't care we have rifles just are too ignorant to see the damage or their egos will not let them say otherwise.

The downward spiral continues on a more rapid pace......

It's a good thing though..... a shortened gun season will be the eventual "fix".

Trust me.......

I really hope the end result is not a shortened gun season. I know gun only hunters are considered lazy slobs, but that doesn't apply to all of us. Life for me has changed for the busier. Sold my bow a couple years ago because I simply don't have the time to invest in being good enough to hunt with it. Working 6 days a week leaves me little hunting time as it is. Maybe it's time to be a real slob and buy a crossbow.

Oh please, dont go to the darker side ;0) .... at least with guns, there is no hiding what they are ....

There are those who think the firearms season will be shortened/moved and have been saying so for years.

Do I think it will happen? Perhaps @ some point in time, but the firearms season(s) are still the main management tool of the IDNR @ this time (accounting for roughly 72% of the yearly harvest over the last 5 seasons) and unless/until bowhunters in this state take a larger percentage of the overall harvest on a consistent basis, I don't see much changing.

Y'all working on the assumption those long range deer would not have wondered into range either then or the next day etc.


I'll bet ten dollars to a donut gun season won't be shortened in the next decade.

Only thing that will happen is fewer bonus tags allowed

Trapper Dave At this point in time, I would agree that is a much more likely scenario as it's my understanding that the DNR doesn't have to jump through hoops to adjust the number of available bonus tags and thus the number of counties participating in the late antlerless season.

Great Email From Jasper-Pulaski Fish & Wildlife Area


"We do not have accurate up to date harvest numbers at this time due in part to the online check-in system. Our hunters are still required to turn in their hunting permit cards and report all game harvested to us…..but I know that isn’t happening in many cases. Therefore, we have to wait until the numbers are sent to us at the end of the season and compare it to what we have because we cannot query the online system at the property level. Based on what has been reported so far across the Northern Fish & Wildlife Areas, the harvest is down but how much we don’t know for sure yet.

For example, last year on Jasper-Pulaski we had 126 deer turned in on cards here at the property but I know that we actually killed at least 135 after comparing the cards against the online system.

Despite what has been reported on the Hoosier Hunting website, JP has never had a deer harvest in the high 200’s. In fact, JP has only broken 200 three times and that was in the late 80’s-early 90’s during times when FWA’s were required to allow bonus antlerless deer to be taken in the firearms season. Don’t get me wrong, the harvest will be down this year from what it was last year, I’m just trying to correct any misinformation and/or exaggerated claims.

FYI here is some historical data:

Average number of deer taken on JP:
1980-1989= 144.8
1990-1999= 145.9
2000- 2009= 154
2010-2015= 131

That the Ardizone buck that the woman killed Joe

I sat private land yesterday morning from 7:00am-12:00pm and didn't see a deer. Opening morning of ML season...and I heard one shot at 9:30am. That was the extent of it. Been hunting the same area for 25 years. Typically in that area, one will hear double digit shots opening day of ML.

Be interesting to see how our late seasons pan out statewide.

Ditto to Pav's report.....very slow. We heard 1 shot in AM, 2 in PM with a bunch of public ground nearby. Did see 3 road killed deer and 2 bald eagles up by Patoka. Heading out again. Good luck all

This has been my worse deer season in many years. Ive yet to see a buck bigger than a fork horn and he was barely a forky. Ive been seeing does in groups of 3-4 with no bucks in tow. The two biggest bucks on my game cams both got shot first weekend by the new neighbors and they are shooting everything that jumps the fence. I could have shot deer most every day of the season but Im not doe hunting. Got enough doe killing neighbors sitting on my fence line. I just hope the pibalds make through this season......the only word that comes to mind that would explain my whole hunting season is, "frustrating". h.h.

HH I also have not seen a big deer all year. I passed an ok 9pt opening day of bow. Dad missed that same deer in gun. Was seein a lot of does and fawns and only have seen 4 different bucks all year

JP was the same as what Pav said... sat from before light to noon...heard 2 shots ...However, I did see a decent buck, an 8 pt about 120-125" or so, messed around behind me at 50 yds for about 5 minutes... I hope he makes it to next season, all I'm after is a 100lb Doe to close out my archery tags...had two small ones by me Fri. afternoon....I let them walk, may have went 60 and 80lbs each, I wont kill a Doe that small.....was told at the check station only around 30 bucks killed during gun season....Ive only seen 5 bucks all season, counting the one Sat. I;m used to seeing twice to 3 times that on private...killed one of those 5, the 190lb big 8pt back the last of Oct. ..... I may have to re-estimate and lower my predictions to this years total kill numbers for the state....lol... I was saying 123-124K...I wonder if it will even make that ??

BTW, the first true snow of the season is hitting now, 1-3 inches up here...and I'm stuck at work ... SMH ...

Why in the world would you want to shoot any mature Doe or any doe in this area if the Deer numbers are truly down as you have posted them to be ?

Your either part of the problem or part of the solution...you cant or shouldn't be both!

Let guess.... It OK because your using a Bow... SMH

You beat me to it Brew... I was thinking the same thing when I was reading it...

Reminds of a guy I work with... Last year he was boasting that he and his family killed something like 8 deer in the woods they hunt and couple of weeks ago he was ranting to me that they only killed 3 this year...

You can't fix stupid!...

Think about it people, for every Doe killed that is potentially 2-4 deer lost the next year and so forth...

Yea, I'm done for the year, I'll start chasing bunnies....

Throback:

That Ardizone deer was killed in Jefferson county not Switzerland. No big deer on either of our properties this year......

I've had more, and bigger, bucks on camera in my woods this year than ever. And have seen more does than the past ten years probably. Looking up in my area. Still can't get one tagged though lol

Just got this email today from James at the DNR.

"I will warn you that since online check in started, a variety of Fish and Wildlife areas have noticed a decline in people reporting deer harvested to the Fish and Wildlife areas despite harvesting them on properties.

Having said that, Jasper Pulaski has harvested 35 deer during archery and 30 deer during firearms. These are the latest figures and I am sure you are aware that we do not allow bonus antlerless licenses on our Fish and Wildlife areas."

There is no way to know what the number of those not turning in a card when they kill a deer on any F&W property is...it is probably a low number.. during the 2015 gun season they had 55 deer reported killed on the place, 51 with bow and 20 during late arch/ML and had the online check in then.. and the year before that too, and before that also.... the reported gun kill this year is very similar to 2014 where 34 were reported....then again STATE wide, I'm sure there are deer killed and not checked in at all too, but there is no way to know what that number is...but I would guess the states bean counters could make a guess... on the F&W properties, a look also needs to be made at the total number of hunter days and should be compared to previous years, a small decrease may not equate to a lower kill, but a larger number might... for the last few seasons these number are close...and in actuality the recent years are higher hunter days... dont know what this seasons results are yet....

Friday after first weekend of ML 2015: 111,917

Today:108,668

A 3% year-over-year decline.

With rifles versus without rifles. Both years with early firearms openers and fantastic weather throughout the 16 day seasons.

Don't forget, we killed over 136,000 deer the 1st year of Prop#2. If this year ends up in the 120,000 range, we will be averaging roughly a 3% year-over-year decline over the past four seasons.
No way of knowing how much, but it is a safe bet this year's decline would have been even greater without rifles in the mix.

I'm curious just how far the numbers have to fall before the masses say ENOUGH! I'm also concerned we're going to learn the answer to that question sooner than later. Said it before and I'll say it again....I hope I am wrong about that.

Sorry, double post

Deer Harvest the last Seven years...

While I know many don't agree with it (or like it), the DNR has instituted herd reduction and if it's working the numbers should be dropping.

The question(s) I've had about herd reduction are likely similar to those that others might have.

Does the DNR have a target harvest number that we should be roughly averaging to have met the goals of herd reduction?

Is the harvest of 120-125,000 deer that we've been averaging over the last few years that number?

Close to that number?

Or is this more about county numbers rather than overall numbers?

The amount killed shows what was taken-what worries me is how few are left.If there are 12 cans of pop in the fridge and you take out two(what you can use),there are 10 left.Next time there are 3 cans and you take out the 2 you can use there is only 1 left.Your "harvest" was the same,but it doesn't mean the "population" was the same.

What about Does having offspring every year?
Wouldn't that replenish to some degree ?

Your "can" theory only looks at the negatives!