Dew ;6 years only 6 days to kill your buck I get you Point but Not everyone hunts to Kill ? If that's what you want fine Myself I like hunting when I want to during the long season instead of when I would have to dictated by a short season!!What's wrong with Indianas Management ??Sounds like it's pretty good if That's all the time it takes for you to get your trophy

Exactly....

I'm not saying that hunters in other states want to trade management practices, but, if their hunters are complaining about the management of their herds, then what makes their rules better than ours?...

If we adopted their rules everyone who cries and moans on this site now, will continue to do so...

We have zero chance of adopting any rules which will put an end to 100% of the moaning and complaining. It's just human nature to complain.
I have no delusions of that happening...or desire to even make an attempt.

Resident hunters tend to be "conditioned" to the resident regs. I used to be as guilty of that as anyone. Then I started hunting other states and saw first hand what deer hunting in Indiana could be. It's not just about big antlers...but big antlers are definitely a by product of sound deer management.

I would encourage anyone...if you ever get the chance, have this discussion with a REAL deer biologist. I'm not talking about a state employee on a political gag order...I'm talking about a private sector deer biologist that actually manages a deer herd in the best interest, which includes carrying capacity and age structure, of the resource.

I would encourage anyone...if you ever get the chance, have this discussion with a REAL deer biologist. I'm not talking about a state employee on a political gag order...I'm talking about a private sector deer biologist that actually manages a deer herd in the best interest, which includes carrying capacity and age structure, of the resource.


Best post of this entire thread......


REAL deer biologists just shake their heads.

Sorry jjas........ couldn't get to you till now. Touring schools today with the new family coming over from Illinois.

As for your post...... I was the one driving yesterday, my buddies were the ones looking at your posts as they had no idea who you were.... and the entertainment level in the truck was at an all time high with them as they saw you floundering on what to do.....and then resorted to lies as a last ditch effort to look credible once again. They were just reading out loud the stuff you were spewing...... I guess for them the entertainment value could have looked like an obsession of what you posted for awhile.

As for the "drinking while typing"..... hmmmm, really? I've treated those with addictions for over 31 years in the industry I work in..... and I learned a long time ago that alcohol or drugs is NOT something to mess with..... as you will find no source of such in my home. So.... throw some more zhit my way..... once again, it won't stick. Interesting how you'll throw that kind of accusation my way........ but not even confronting your little minions that make Booze/Beer/Alcohol their ID here and make it clear that "violent beatings of others" is ok as it helps keep the planets aligned. You keep some pretty "healthy" company jjas :rolleyes: . But no worries...... I was as sober as they get at almost 3am in the morning as I was checking work emails, weather, my ebay account and had some time to send you a response. I was up late anyways from traveling...... it took no longer than 5 min of typing to clear up your antics again. I'll have to let the others I typed to last night at work, and family that I must be "obsessed" with them and must have been drinking as I spent more time typing to them than to you jjas last night....... LOL!!

Gotta wrap some Christmas Gifts........ tis' the season....

You've used links from Ohiosportsman.com...... probably one of the largest groups of Ohio deer hunters on the web. Put up a post saying it would be in the best interest of Ohio to go to a 30+ day season you could use a gun or a Muzzy..... leave it up for 30 days and get back with us on what happens.

Keep in mind there will always be a little squabbling from little pieces of this and that in any deer hunting state ( I agree with you on that) ....... but slam them with that 30+ gun days change and see what they do....

I can remember my first year hunting in Ohio...... my friend with me was a measurer for P&Y, B&C and HRB. We were very familiar with Kosciusko County's deer that were checked in....and at the time, most were checked in at one location in Warsaw called Albertson's Sport shop. They always had a contest going... and pics of up the bigger deer in that contest..... most years there were 15-20 P&Y deer checked in all season......and about every 3-4 years you'd see a Gross Boone come in.

As my buddy and I rolled into Ohio that first year to hunt......... we left about November 10th. The little gas station in town had a small check station for the county and a board up for putting up your pics that were deer checked in. When we left early in November to come back home...... There were 34 deer on that board that were P&Y deer, and two NET Boone's. Theeee absolute SCAREY and mind blowing part of that was ........ gun season, and muzzy season hadn't even happened yet!!! And if that wasn't enough to blow our minds...... that little gas station and little check station was only 1 of 8 check stations in that County.

Changed me forever......

Every farm we leased had P&Y, OBBC (HRB equivalent) and some Booners........ and one farm had 13 hunters that had it the year before us. The regs made the difference....... everyone in the area had a chance for "the dream buck". Hunting was "SO unpopular" and "so many upset" about the regs...... the local schools closed up for opening day as most kids were out enjoying those "terrible regs". LOL!!!

10 years later........ those farms have netted me 4 P&Y entries, 4 OBBC entries, and 1 Booner entry........All with Archery gear.

And there are those walking around in here wanting to keep others from having that type of experience....... and resort to lies and distortion to build their case.

Most are now catching on....... there is a better way.

The only thing that is wrong is the length of gun/muzzy seasons..... my success isn't because of Indiana's regs......it's because of MY regs I follow on MY properties during gun season and doe tag #'s I set for my properties. EVERY hunter in my counties I own or lease in want to hunt my properties because they follow Indiana regs for gun season length and doe tags to be filled, or have neighbors that follow Indiana regs for gun season and doe tags to be filled........and they WRECK their properties by following Indiana regs when it comes to gun days and doe tag limits....

It's like having a 100 mph speed limit in Indiana and everyone starts driving at 100 mph.... and getting killed off left and right........ and then get pizzed I'm still alive and thriving cause I self impose still a 55 mph limit on myself.

People want the "prize"........but they don't want the "work" or "discipline".

As Bobby Knight used to say....... "everyone wants to play on Saturday, but nobody wants to come to practice".

Jesus Christ, Dew....do you ever shut up?

On and on and on and on......

Back to the original topic, 114,110 have now been checked in.

Dew, you said your success isn't because of Indiana's regs but the regs that you set for your properties. My question is, isn't the responsibility to manage our own properties on us no matter what and Indiana's responsibility to manage the total state wide deer herd?

You obviously only hunt deer for the antlers and bragging rights. My guess is you don't even eat deer meat which is fine. All of your arguments are based around managing for big bucks. That can be accomplished by managing your own properties and has absolutely nothing to do with the state regs. In my family between my kids and I we can kill a lot of deer however we killed 4 and called it a season. Just because the seasons are long and weapon of choice are numerous doesn't mean the herd gets wiped out. I just don't understand your argument except that you only want big bucks.

If my deer hunting was determined by the least amount of time in the Woods to kill the biggest buck I could I would Quit . That is a pathetic analogy of a successful season ,And to expect everyone to be like you is equally pathetic ,^^^^^^

.....and if I was typing what you wanted to hear, I'd be your "best buddy". As a grown man, I would suggest you just ignore what I post.... as it's not meant to cause you misery.

..... unless you DESERVE misery.....

I numbered my responses to your questions.....was just easier.....hope that's OK

"Dew as I say, not as I Dew"

You finally figured that out!

Good on you!

My "successful season" doesn't need to match your "successful season"..... sorry if my success plan doesn't match yours, and apparently that entitles you to call other hunters "pathetic".

I think my responses to API earlier may help give you some insight.

Once again....... you attempt to twist to "your advantage".

I'm not saying the herd will be wiped out....... never had. Find where I have posted that. I have asked you repeatedly to put up posts you claim as "truth" of your lies about me....... I challenge you again. You'd think slithering around on your belly all the time would give you a blister or somethin'...LOL!!!

I'm saying the herd is being reduced drastically, and "quantity" will no longer be the card the IDNR to keep playing to keep most involved. They will have to introduce "quality" within the regs to keep allot involved with "quantity" gone.

But......... you're not interested playing nice if it has anything to do with what your ego can't handle.......and that's seeing Quality Management come to front and center for our state.

To H E L L with Quality Management you say...... and undermine the IDNR if that is what they wanted in Prop #1. And now want to be labeled as a supporter of the IDNR...LOL!! The only time you "support something" is if you FORCED it to do what you wanted. Would just LOVE living in your home....LOL!!

Nope........ I killed a Big Azz Buck in 3 days of firearms season hunting.

And yes.......that's a good thing.

But you don't like THAT version. And you have to edit your posts over and over as you just are OBSESSED with me and how that makes sense.....and presents a HUGE crack in your logic....LMAO!!

Dew as I say, not as I Dew,
First you killed a deer on day 15 of the firearms season after complaining about the gun season for years...and now....THIS!

I'm impressed!

I think someone's getting just a weee bit grumpy....LOL!! And we don't even know who those quotes you used are from, or what your trying to explain ......LMAO!!!

Dew as I say, not as I Dew

C'mon now, don't get "Grinchy"....you've made some real progress over the last few weeks.

A day 15 firearms harvest and then you admitted that "Just because the seasons are long and weapon of choice are numerous doesn't mean the herd gets wiped out."

Way to go!

Ohhh God......... I am rolling on the floor laughing!! You are using something APIbowhunter posted.....it's his quote...... not mine...LOL!!!

I know you're tryin' hard little buddy........

Time to edit another one of your filthy acidic lying attempts?? :p

Dew as I say, not as I Dew My mistake, but hey the way it was posted was a bit confusing. Oops!

But it really doesn't matter as you've still made huge progress with your day 15 firearms season harvest after all those years of complaining.

And I'm very, very proud of you for that!

It's obvious that your "agenda" needs it to say "15 day firearm harvest".......when in reality it only took me 3 gun days of hunting out of 30+ days available to get my buck.

I know that swallows hard for you..... as it presents a crack in your "logic" for your agenda of screwing Indiana out of a more Quality Deer Management Regs. And what grinds you the most........is that you FORCED your way to the front of the bus for a few short years.....and now you are getting thrown the back of the bus and you know your "time is up".

Dew as I say, not as I Dew,

You can nit pick all you want, but you know what I meant... . And sniping @ me won't diminish what you've accomplished!

You managed to put aside years of calling for the firearms season to be shortened/moved and risked being considered a hypocrite, all so you could realize a day 15 November dream.

Kudos!

And you can nit pick all YOU want as you know....and my history shows......and 1,000's of others hunters shows........ Ya don't need 30+ days of gun hunting to get it done.

Basically what you are demanding is given the 30+ days we now have to hunt,...... you better not bittch unless you hunt the day jjas says you can within the 30 days you thought you had to pick from. He won't care how many gun days you took to hunt, and got it done...... he just will care what day it fell on during the season. This also says he delusionally believes that if the season was 15-20 days...... most of us would be incapable of getting our gun hunting done, or incapable of picking our own number of days to gun hunt within those 15-20 days to get it done..... even though states around us show it is possible to get it done in less than 12 days.

......now......go live in his house for more things he will FORCE on you so his agenda gets met.

Wait....... I almost forgot....... we ARE living in the house he FORCED our IDNR to build with Prop #2 he rammed through. And he loves this house he forced built so much...... he ain't leaving alive even if it means to resorting to lying and deception.

He can't stop himself.....his ego wont let him........

More to come I'm sure......

Dew, it just seems like your agenda is big bucks only so I apologize for assuming you don't shoot does. As far as some other issues go let's just agree to disagree. Hope you and your family have a Merry Christmas!

All is good....... no worries. Have a good Christmas yourself.

Hunting is not a job or a chore You work at till you "Get it Done" Me or Thousands like me don't Hunt to get it done Doesn't sound like much fun if you hunt just to "Get it done"

So........ if you hunt just to sit out there...... have at it man. I hope you enjoy yourself. At least I'll know any regs that are set or changed wont effect you in the least...... you're out there just to sit out there. Good for you.

You wouldn't make my buddy list if you pooped gold every other step!
Sorry to burst your bubble

11 more **** posts by you in last 24 hrs on this topic... Guess my question is answered.

There's a big difference in Hunting to Kill and Killing in order to have hunted . First Time I went out west when we stopped in Goldrn Colorado I went to a barns and Noble and Bought a Sibleys on Birds out West and Wild flowers of the Rockies You see a Hunt is way more than a kill to me
I kinda feel sorry for you that killing in As short a time as possible determines your success !!! No I don't just kidding

You can sit in the woods all year. I hunt to kill what I'm after kind of thought that was the point. Doesn't mean I don't enjoy the outdoors while doing it. But I don't have to be hunting to do that. Tagged out or not.

The perfect season for me would be to fill my tag on my target buck on the last day of the late archery season after spending 80 days trying to do it prior, but even if I don't I'm still a happy man and would not try and shorten- move any of our deer season in hopes that I can get it done with less effort in the future seasons.

Got a fatty doe to finish up the season. I got 51# of boneless not including the tenderloins which made for a couple nice steak and egg breakfasts. With my buck, I got 136# in the freezer this season.

[img]https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1....8aad379bc0240dea30cd3da7bf01&oe=58D861DE[/img]

Harvest is at 118,391 right now which compares to a little over 121,000 on Jan. 1, 2016. Looks like we'll be a little lower than last year but pretty close to 2014. Trend is stable.

I wish everyone a Happy New Year. I was blessed in many ways in 2016 but overall, I'm happy it's over.

I'm happy it's over too John.

Not as optimistic as you on the "trend" though.

Here's why...

The month of November 2014 was pretty bad weather wise. The last week of archery and first week+ of firearms were unseasonably cold....with snow and ice in many areas. I missed a fish fry in southern Indiana with the gun hunters on the farm first Monday of firearms season because of icy road conditions. Northern Indiana got hammered with snow from the same system. I believe South Bend received over a foot of snow right before the opener. That arctic blast was followed up by a major wind event the second week of firearms season.

IMO, due to the extreme weather, Indiana deer hunters left extra groceries on the shelf in 2014....which equated to a higher harvest in 2015. Guess what I'm saying is....I believe the 2014 harvest is artificially low and the 2015 harvest artificially high due to weather conditions. Given equal conditions, I believe those numbers could have easily been flipped.

This year, firearm season opened as early as possible and we again had very good weather conditions. Even with the introduction of rifles, we're still going to end up short...with the lowest harvest total since 2003.

The trend I'm seeing / experiencing is nothing close to stable. The first year of Prop #2, we killed over 136,000 animals. Five years later, we're at roughly 118,000 (with rifles). I'm not a guy that believes EVERY deer killed with a rifle would have survived otherwise....but I do believe there were SOME deer killed with rifles that would have survived otherwise. The real answer lies somewhere in between....and would drop that 118,000 number even lower without rifles in the mix.

The number of deer I saw while hunting this year (lowest ever by far)is unacceptable given my 25 years on the same Ripley and Jefferson county properties. The number of deer I've seen while driving back and forth to work in unimaginable given the 17 years of daily commutes I've made on the same 34 mile round trip stretch of road in Jackson and Bartholomew counties. Saw a deer along this stretch Saturday morning...first deer I've seen while driving too and from work since mid-November. That's simply unprecedented.

The harvest is definitely falling. Just how far people are willing to let it fall remains to be seen. Already too far in many areas...and the recovery, if there is one, won't be overnight.

If it wasnt for the introduction of the now much longer range tool(Rifles), we wouldnt even have the kill numbers this season we do .... I think someone earlier said the gun kill was up.... that may be the only "season" that was up...

I think the real answer is an unknown without some real population studies.

I am another data point of "One hunter" but I saw more deer this year than in the past 4-5 yrs with about the same hunting effort (I do not track hours logged) hunting in Parke, Montgomery, and Tippecanoe counties. My son killed a doe the first day of youth season. I killed a buck the first Monday of gun. Both with a .243 (and both within shotgun range) =)

Just saw 7 does cross right in front of me last week right by home.... herd around here is doing "OK"