Imagine atterbury FWA where you can't see 40 yards in the scrub brush, and those hunters armed with high power rifles....

You mentioned Atterbury, I had mentioned Kingsbury once before...heck, a person could sit at the south end of Blood Alley and shoot at a deer all the way north to the tracks....or down one of their super long fence rows.... there are horror stories that come off that place every year, just wait if this crap passes....you'll have bunny hunters, pheasant hunters, waterfowl hunters and rifle totin' deer hunters all out at the same time.....JP will be just as bad, just that there isnt any Pheasant on the place ;0)

no, they don't, but a 3" group at 200 yards with a 20 gauge slug is good enough to kill deer.

agree.. rifles are not needed in Indiana, if it were up to me we'd go back to the old method, muzzleloader and shotguns only. I doubt that will happen

Not exactly...but made me look.

Last night I went out at about 3:45. I hunt a small area (< 10 acres) and was in a stand on a ridge over funnel and a small cut corn field on the other side with about 1/2 acre of standing corn. At 5:30 the deer start pouring into the field. 6 does, 3 fawns, and then a forkie came from behind at 5:40. I looked across the field and finally after a long season, a shooter shows. He's quartering away slightly at 115 yards and it's 5:45. Technically legal light, but there is a road 400yds behind and a house 100 yds to the right. I'm an average shooter, and definitely not comfortable with my muzzy on that shot. As the final sunlight faded and I slipped out of the stand, I couldn't help but wonder how many average shooters would have taken that shot with an hpr.

If you were in a treestand at a height of 20 ft the bullet would hit the ground about 20 yards behind the deer, even with an hpr.

One thing with HPR you will see a lot more tripod stands in the MIDDLE of big fields you will not have to hunt the side of a DG old the entire field will be in range still hunt the edges but ALL of them at one time you will be able to take wind direction out of the quest for Big Bucks or as far as that goes any deer

@js2397- I didn't include every detail as to keep the post as short as possible. Your point is a good one, but in my case the stand is 17ft., field is a total of 12 acres, and has crest in the middle that drops about 12-14 ft to where my stand is. So in my case, a virtually level shot. My point is should an average hunter be taking a quartering away in iffy light with roads and houses around. Even with my .243 I know it's a shot I would have been tempted with. I'm not necessarily against hprs, but I do think the counties have to be looked at. In an area like yours that is extremely hilly, I would have no problem with them.

Got you, I don't disagree that there are shots and areas where hpr's may not be the best choice.

I agree and I find this so diminishing for deer hunting. The word hunting is pretty much nondescript anymore because so much of deer season really isn't hunting at all and it's only going to get worse.

Is it hunting if done from a tripod stand in the middle of a field? At the edge of a field? In the middle of a woods?
Is it hunting if done from a tree stand, ladder stand, or any other kind of elevated stand, blind, or “tree house?”
Is it hunting if done from a ground blind?
Is it hunting if done with a recurve bow, compound bow, or crossbow if the latest technology** is used?
(**technology such as arrow/bolt heads, sights, scopes, range finders, bipods, trigger releases, trail cams, camo clothing, scents, scent blockers, etc.)
Is it hunting if done with a muzzleloader equipped with a scope? Using saboted bullets? Using substitute or even smokeless powders?
Is it hunting if done with a shotgun equipped with a scope? Using a rifled barrel and saboted bullets?
Is it hunting if done with a handgun equipped with a scope? Using a bipod and/or other devices to steady the aim?

Is it ONLY hunting if we walk, stalk, and crawl on the ground in pursuit of game?
Or, is it ALSO hunting it we just stand, sit, or lie in wait (at a point of our choosing) for the game to come within our personal maximum effective, safe, and ethical range, regardless of whether that is from an elevated position, ground blind, or on the ground itself?

Or, do our answers to the above depend heavily upon which hunters or hunting tools (weapons, accessories, and projectiles) we personally like or dislike?

---Posted as food for thought.

Love the post Cedar. Or, is it hunting if we sit at home in the future and pull the trigger on a remote control rifle stationed in the woods or field with a 24 hour live camera in it. Does the progression ever end.

Thanks. Regarding your question of remote-controlled killing of game, I believe that can (and should) be banned in and from Indiana, either by legislation or regulation. Assuming the practice is not already banned I would suggest that as a topic for discussion with Mark Reiter very soon.

NOW your talking Dave!!!! That would make my wife happy!!! No more muddy hunting clothes in HER laundry equipment. No need to buy any more expensive hunting boots, or nice wool garments. No more getting up two hours before the crack of dawn, waking her up in the process. No more missing family functions and Holidays "just to shoot a deer". She would be ecstatic!!!

Instead: I could sit in my warm, dry, recliner in my underwear at the TV, with my coffee, all day, so as not to miss anything going on in the woods. When she wants to run the dreaded vacuum when I'm "hunting", I'd have to tell her, NOT NOW!, I'm hunting. When she called me to lunch, NOT NOW! I'm hunting. She tells me company is coming over for dinner, NOT NOW!!! I'm hunting!!! When her show American Idol comes on…..NOT NOW!!!!!!!!!!! HONEY!!! Could you please bring me a beer….I'm Hunting, and can't get up!!!

On second thought…………..

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...hoot-live-animals-over-the-internet.html

That's old news, been around a while unless they've stopped it. This article was from 2005. Just amazes me.

I don't think our hypocrisy allows the progression to end.....

Compounds, crossbows, 200 yard slug guns, hprs, scent control clothing, game cameras that run 24/7/365 and contact hunters in real time, high fence game farms that sell urine, semen, venison, live deer and "hunts". How about drones? The list goes on and on and on.........

As far as hunters go, who gets to decide where to draw the line? Who gets to decide what is fair chase? You may think that hprs cross the line while I think "real time" cameras do. You may think that a game farm is out of line, yet how many of us use deer urine in the woods every year?

In the end, we are all a bit hypocritical when it comes to "progress" as we support what we agree with and rail against what we don't.

My only disagreement with your post JJAS is the words, "a bit". I would instead suggest the word "pathetically" (me included) be more appropriate. I think to degree this is why after spending a lot of hours in the stand this year and passing countless deer, bucks and does, I just didn't see the point of putting one down. It just seems to me that so much of it has taken an ugly turn, with almost no respect for the deer itself.

I will leave the arguing to you all, I am going coyote hunting...with my .243 =)

I don't think you got my point cedar IHunt a lot around a 7 acre WSG field I stand in the drive and check the wind and hunt the woods edge that is appropriate with HPR I could walk the fire break in the middle of the field climb in a tripod and hunt the entire field regardless of wind And then Shoot deer not hunt them

As soon as all the deer hunters clear out I'll be doing the same thing.

HPR are already legal in Indiana for all but deer. Also you can use HPR cartridges in pistols in Indiana so it is a bit silly not to allow HPR. As to the muzzle loader effective distances...The guns manufactured today are more powerful than those used to kill bison at over 1000 yards. As far as that goes so do 20 gauge sabots. To me the real benefit will be to be able to use a more efficient tool with far less recoil. This can be as much as 2/3 less recoil.

I don't think that any possible benefit outweighs the risks. Yes, high powered rifles are already allowed for other things, like coyotes, and you can target shoot with them, but 1) with target shooting, if you go out on your back 40 and a round goes into someone else’s house, you’re criminally liable for not shooting in an area properly backstopped, and that happens a few times a year, so, how many deer hunters are going to make sure any shot they take is properly backstopped? They may be hunting in a flat area where that’s not even possible. 2) With target shooting or hunting coyotes, when do you have hundreds or thousands of other guys in the woods that could not only potentially be hit by your shot, but could potentially shoot you? Deer season brings out far more people into the woods at the same time than any of those other activities. Where I hunt, opening morning already sounds like a warzone, but I'm not worried. If those are high powered rifles, you can bet I'm going to be worried and that will take away from the peaceful relaxtion and enjoyment I feel being out there. Like I said, I don’t think there are any herd management benefits that outweigh the potential risks.

It is a silly comparison to equate coyote hunters to deer hunting, not even close. There are far more deer hunters in the field and shots being taken by deer hunters then coyote hunters.

Most coyote hunters use smaller fragmenting style bullets so as not to damage the pelt.

Coyote season is 5 months long. If it were as short as deer firearms season there would probably be a lot more guns in the woods.

If the hpr is allowed you will only be able to use fragmenting style bullets for deer.

there is no way there are as many 'yote hunters as there is deer hunters......it dosnt play into this at all, those that continue to bring this up are fooling themselves....no comparison at all.... when I hunt 'yote's I never see another doing so, as for the deer hunters that is a whole different story, there are trucks/vehicles parked all over(esp. on public land)...., you dont see that with 'yote hunters... for the largest portion of gun deer hunters, once the season is done, they wont venture back into the woods till the following season....only a few die hard's like myself and a few others on here chase 'yotes....

Maybe we should just make the deer gun season 5 months long. Problem with parking solved.

Naw, lets just do away with deer season. Problem solved.

Actually was standing looking at smokers at Calela's today in Louisville and struck up a conversation with another gentleman looking at them. I asked him if he smoked any of his deer meat and he laughed and said, and I quote, "I use a high powered rifle and sit on my porch and shoot deer, there's no reason to hunt deer". He asked what county I lived in and I told him I lived in Indianapolis. Anyhow, to make a long story short, he "explained" to me that the baiting and rifles in Kentucky has taken "hunting" out of game. He was in his 60's and lived near Bardstown.

There's a deer season in Indiana?

Good point. Let's just close'm all.

Lol. Let's all go fishing. How do you guys feel about HPB? (High Powered Boats)

With HPR that's exactly what I've been saying The Hunt would be taken out of the picture You think most Not all are wanting just that For Indiana What an edge to be able to kill just about every deer you see IKÑOW I would on my farm

In past years that I did hunt with my ML/slug Gun, I passed on shots I easily could have made with my .270 .... I would say there are thousands of others that have done the same, now put a CF in their hands and what would have been a passed shot is now a dead deer....the kill numbers WILL go up, both antlered and antlerless....I know what I'm capable of with a CF .... I can consistently make 200-375 yd shots on 'chucks, 'yotes and crows with my 22-250, a deer is a give me out to 275+ yds with my .270 .... Ive done it in the western states.... ****, as a USMC sniper, I was making 600+ yds shots on a regular basis... we were killing goats out to 500+ yds on Kahoolawe off the big Island...deer aint squat... watch Extreme outer Limits on TV, 600-800 yd shots are common, punch in the info on your hand held computer, dial in the scope and smile....

I think you are over estimating the average hunter, you have the training and experience and can make those shots but they can't.

I would bet most (like 95%+) in Indiana won't be capable of this kind of accuracy needed to consistently harvest deer at 275 to 300 yds, let alone longer ranges. In most areas, most shots will still be inside of 100 yds regardless of weapon capability

76Chevy And there is your bottom line....

[QUOTE]Originally posted by 76chevy:
[QB] I think you are over estimating the average hunter, you have the training and experience and can make those shots but they can't.

I would bet most (like 95%+) in Indiana won't be capable of this kind of accuracy needed to consistently harvest deer at 275 to 300 yds, let alone longer ranges. In most areas, most shots will still be inside of 100 yds regardless of weapon capability


I agree BUT they will NOW try.... that is what makes makes me uneasy.

They have studied deer hunting here with high power rifle cartridges in pistols and there has been no increase issues. They also studied other states with shotgun only laws that switched to HPR and there was no increase in hunters shot.

The worst season for hunters getting shot is turkey season with shotgun and bird shot.

I wonder if it would make it more dangerous if you could use a high powered rifle in turkey season? I don't want a public land situation where a guy shoots over me from 100 yards at a bird I'm working out into a clear cut for a 25 yard shot with my shotgun. I've had a few shot out from under me by shotgun toting idiots sneaking in to cut em off coming to the call. Do not want ARs and other hpr in my turkey woods. Not cool.

turkey season....no blaze orange.

you will never see rifles for turkeys in Indiana. As it should be

You have to wear orange during the winter turkey season.

(From another site)

The Advisory Council is going to review the comments at its upcoming meeting on January 14th. For that reason all of the comments as of yesterday or maybe a couple of days ago were posted along with the advisory council’s agenda. They may be accessed at the following web addresses:


www.in.gov/nrc/files/nrc_docket_comments.pdf


www.in.gov/nrc/files/mailed_comments.pdf