I have learned that a new Rule Proposal is going to be made next week to allow center fire rifles of .243 and higher to be legal for Indiana deer hunting. The rule could not go into effect earlier than 2015 at the earliest.

The source of this new rule proposal comes from public comments which were taken in various forums over the past.

The proposal will go to Public Comment in the next several weeks, and depending upon that public comment feedback a final adoption meeting would be scheduled for sometime next year is my best guess.

Again, this is a RULE PROPOSAL. It will need to go through public comment periods and formal adoption hearings before it would be finalized. The purpose of this email is to inform hunters to that they can be prepared to comment should they choose to do so. Instructions for how to comment will be forthcoming from IDNR. You can also visit their website www.dnr.in.gov periodically to check if they have this information out there yet.

these calibers are legal in pistols now, why not in rifles??

I will be submitting my comments.

Are they F'n nuts ?? every year there are reports of some idiot during firearms season putting a slug thru someones house around here...I just can see some fool prancing around with a 30/06 and trying 400 yd shots and a round going THRU someones house...... all the **** state wants is more money and more deer killed.....there should be counties where these rifles should not be legal....wasnt the Idea of single shot pistols, ML's and slug guns being used a safety issue to limit the range(200yds or less)... They will get an ear full from me, That I promise....this is BS !!!

The latest proposal will be made public tomorrow - then we will know for sure...

I'm assuming the Firearm License is going to cover both rifles as well as shotguns so would you care to elaborate how the state is going to make more money on this? As far as harvests numbers go I think there will be an up tick but I don't expect it to be earth shattering numbers...

IMO, I think rifles can be safely used in certain areas to harvest deer, not all areas but a lot of areas you could do it... Also, I do think it is stupid to allow the cartridge and not the weapon and the fact that wildcat rounds are legal and we didn't have any problems with them....

But yet you can use them to shoot yotes here?!? :rolleyes:

So..... but there isnt some jackwagon or multiples of 'em in every woodlot as there is come gun season either.. we hear the horror stories of what happens come gun season....lets just go ahead and decimate our deer herd some more too...what the heck....

Thus...the crossbow.

Ok bryan78, how do you pick the "certain areas" ? ...

Wait a minute..wasn't the big issue a couple years ago about the crossbow??

"Never happen" some said.. :rolleyes:

Now we're looking at centerfire rifles...

It'll never happen.

That's not for me to decide... That's the state's responsibility...

Makes no difference to me what state decides to do... If they legalize them, then so be it... If not, then I am not out anything... I will use a rifle if I feel I can safely hunt using one, if not, then I will use my shotgun, not a big deal to me...

Your neck of the woods it may not be safe to use one but in southern Indiana there are many areas that one could use one safely...

look at the ballistics of some of the .35 caliber wildcats. High power rifles are already legal--many wildcats equal to or surpassing rounds like the .30-30

Not to mention the handguns in .270, .308, .243 which are legal at present for deer hunting

at night no less!

Yes, but those pistol calibers are in single shots.... you can sense it here, lets make it easier, whats wrong with what we have now, and leave it as it is....there are plenty of deer killed as it is now, in some counties too many killed....the coyote vs deer thing is not the same, not even close, null and void as Ive stated, there isnt half the number of guys hunting 'yotes as there are deer...stay with apples to apples....

I agree Jeff.

Personally, I am not for this and would like for things to stay the same.

I feel we have enough opportunity the way it is and the DNR can manage the herd as is.

I have a 7mm-08 Encore pistol that could be shot out past 200 yards but I only shoot 100 due to practice time and load costs. One shot and I am done. What I fear is the Walmart Wacho's with multiple rounds going nuts. We are the minority on here and I would trust "most" of you hunting with a rifle but we do not represent everyone.

I would vote to leave it alone.

FYI, The Savage Striker is a 3 shot bolt action pistol. h.h.

and many of the popular "high power" calibers are available in single shot rifle models. If I was deer hunting with a .243 bolt gun, I am putting just one shell in. Its all I am going to need.

I thought the argument against high power rifles in Indiana is the ballistics combined with flat terrain and high population density in many areas, now it is the magazine capacity too?

You can beat this drum until the Indians drop...but it's never going to be enough to make everybody happy.

So now your comparing a AR semi auto to a bolt action ?? and to that I say a bolt is safer than a AR(I own both BTW)at least in the quickness that one can be fired....yep, I can just see a guy now at Kingsbury with a .308/7.62 AR flat top platform and a 50lb Doe tries to run across blood alley there...it would sound like HE!! fire night with a Battalion on line when they all open up at once... it has been discussed on here some time back about limiting slug guns to 3 shots after a hunter was killed when another fired multiple shots at a deer and he was killed on the 4th or 5th shot....anyways..... I will press for no centerfire rifles.... I believe it would be a mistake for the herd and for safety sake

Now we get into semi-auto vs bolt action. What about the pump guns?

After reading these few posts....I'll also vote for no CF rifles. :rolleyes:

I'll keep my fishing poles handy, though...

What about them pumps !?.... I have one of those also.... an old Rem 760 in .270win.....killed quite a few deer in Texas where there was room to use it...same for my Win. 70 in .308...I have 'em but I'm not clammering to use 'em here....

I'm going to comment on this ONE time. The argument on centerfire pistols, and the wildcat rifles doesn't amount to a hill of beans in the overall number of hunters out there using them. Most cannot afford, or will not pay the $1000+ to get a custom rifle made, let alone pay for the cost of that ammo. I cannot remember where I read it, but there was a stat floating around that indicated that less than 1% used a pistol in a large caliber center fire for deer hunting. I don't know this for fact, but I bet both combined wouldn't be 1% of the total number of hunters out there using them. And YES we can use any centerfire to shoot coyotes. But we don't have even close to the same number of people out coyote hunting, in a concentrated amount of time at a game animal as numerous as deer. There is no argument there...

You guys can fight this one out. To quote Weedy….." I really don't give a chit any more". I don't NEED any of this crap to kill a deer. If I want one, I can kill one my way. If the majority wants all centerfire rifles in gun season, so be it. But you better be careful in what you wish for. It WILL be the next stepping stone to a shortened, and pushed back firearms season. Like him or not, Scarlett Dew just may be right on that one………….

As was mentioned, the "wildcat" rounds being shot now have long distance capability.
250-300 yards I am sure would be no issue for them in the right hands and given target exposure.

My primary deer hunting weapon is an Ultra light arms smokeless muzzleloader. With the bullet and powder load I use, a steady rest and clear view of the vitals, I could kill a deer well past 250 yards, approaching 300 yards. Since Smokeless muzzleloaders have been legal in Indiana for many years now, several years prior to the 'wildcat' centerfire rifle rounds, I have heard of zero incident regarding stray bullets or related injury.

If Indiana lawmakers pass it, I am fine with the idea! No problem here.

Yaz is correct. Shortening and moving the firearms season is still about 2 years away but rest assured it will happen. h.h.

I'm on the fence on this one. I like the idea of more options and since I just bought my first centerfire rifle it would be nice to be able to use it here at home on deer.

On the other hand, I don't need it to kill deer. Most of my deer are shot at 50 yards and under. I can't think of one that was over 70 yards. And I can only picture a couple places where I even have 200 yards to shoot.

I'd like to see some data on the safety issue before I guess on that.

I think it is premature to see this as affecting the length and timing of seasons. I'm not sure where that is coming from?

Some interesting comments on the safety: http://rule-303.blogspot.com/2009/10/shotgun-only-rationale-for-deer-hunting.html

Wisconsin's rule change allowing rifles (see p. 4 for the safety discussion): http://www.wisctowns.com/uploads/ckfiles/files/Statewide%20Rifle%20Memo%20v1%202.pdf

One quote:

Pennsylvania study: http://lbfc.legis.state.pa.us/factsheets/2007/rifle_shotgun_webpost.pdf

One Quote:

This safety thing seems to have been studied pretty well and a little googling should help you to form a reasoned opinion on it. So far, I haven't found any data supporting the safety side of prohibiting rifles.

I guess for me it all comes down to do we really need it for hunting (more opportunity) here in Indiana or need it to manage the herd?

I would still answer no.

Safety always comes down to how safe the person holding the gun is. There we be a lot more of long range lead being thrown if this passes.

Awesome!! If this leads to shortening the days allowed to gun hunt and pushing those seasons later in the year I am all for it. Gun hunting during the peak of the rut is just ridiculous.

All the more reason to go waterfowl hunting once firearms season opens.

Or trap. Or rabbit hunt. If liked waterfowl to eat more I would go more.

I dont know about your guys opinion, but states that allow rifles the deer are way more spooky. You guys have Im sure jumped deer and they run out and turn around and look at you. Once they get hunted with rifles they haul --- when spooked. I jumped deer in texas and they ran till they were out of sight. Like 500 yds. Makes them wild. IMO.

Just further reduces the need for woodsmenship skills, hunter analytical capability, any relative skill in actually hunting, makes most food plots in essence bait piles, extends the property line fence sitters ability to harvest a deer on the neighbors property. But, most of this has already happened and this is merely societal creep of the instant gratification process and short cut to needed learning and understanding. Some might argue that fish finders and the new multi lure rigs are/were the same technology creep in a different sport. You have to realize that most who go into the field anymore are more so "shooters" and not really what many would consider "hunters". It's ok though as the younger generation needs to take over and set their own course and we older guys need to get out of the way and let them guide the future.

Bean....we need to get a group together for some upland bird hunting.

Delaney That could just as easily be a description that the use of game cameras (especially real time game cameras) has had on deer hunting.

I don't know what this proposal actually has in it and it's why I haven't commented on it. But there is one thing I feel pretty confident in saying.

If the past is any indicator, what is proposed is likely to be very different from what is adopted.

I just finished a lengthy phone discussion with a individual who is well known within the DNR.... He feels that the centerfires are not really needed for herd management in this state, this has came about from petitions filed from gun hunting groups and the suggestions put forth last year....the "Higher ups" within the DNR are the ones who made this decision.... We also agreed on the fact that south of INDY is a huge difference in terrain vs the northern 1/3 and may be more suited to centerfires at least in a safety aspect where a round from a missed deer would go much further on the flat lands up here...as for the results on the herd, he says it may make a slight difference in an increase kill, but if it is a noticeable increase, the DNR would drop the late season Doe gun and lower the antlerless bonus even more rather than move/decrease the gun season length and dates....generally he's not overly enthusiastic about the change.....I as he feels it is a done deal, it is just the semantics that need to be finalized.... I strongly feel there should be at the very least counties that remain slug/ML's for safety concerns, maybe even the state North of I70 should remain slug/ML and let the southern portion have the centerfires... we shall see ....

I have many spots which would offer a safe 300 to 400+ yard shot.

Just a different kind of challenge, I love bow hunting and the challege it presents but long range shooting is a challenge also...

Your point is well taken 76, but I would suggest with bow hunting the challenge includes outsmarting the deer and getting close. Long range shooting is simply technical in nature and has little to do with the personal "game" with the deer itself.

I agree about the cameras and much, much more. But, I still don't really believe many of those technologies, including the cameras, provide the advantage of long range shooting.

I agree with the long range challenge, Ive always enjoyed sniping a 'chuck or crow at 300+ yds and Ive made some long shots on 'yotes and a handful on deer when I lived in Texas........as a former USMC Sniper I was and am good at it..no brag, just fact....It has its challenges for sure...If you ever watched the Show on Sportsmans Channel "Extreme Outer Limits" they are taking shots out to 700-1000yds+ on big game....there are set ups where you compute into a handheld device wind, humidity, bullet wt, velocity, etc and it tells you the "clicks" to dial in....of course a range finder helps dramatically also. You still have to make the "shot" however... Military Snipers have it easier now with all the gadgetry compared to what we did back in the '70's....but I still will not condone the use of centerfires here in this state....I'm a BOW hunter first and foremost and enjoy the closeness of the hunt....