Agreed. But, I would pose a simpler question though. If the intent is to maximize revenue, then why not charge extra now for a buck license. Now, I'm not proposing that obviously but the state could reasonably easy increase revenue by charging more for a buck license to residents with the management plan in place today. So, is the intent to create "quality bucks (big bucks)" or is it to produce "quality revenue (maximum revenue)"? If it is about money, then you probably don't have to necessarily create big bucks to increase revenue. Certainly, under both models, there is a breaking point between money and will to buy a license parts ways. As price increases, hunters drop out and possibly age structure increases. But, it would take a lot of hunters to drop out before revenue would get back to net zero.

They already have......

Implementation of such here in Indiana has just been delayed.

Dew, I don't know about the delayed issue, but the DNR has known for years how they could maximize license revenue from deer. There are just a few other issues they also have to consider and deal with. Actually, to the surprise of many people, the DNR has a lot of smart people working for it.

I know you don't know......

Big yawn.. Anyone try cracked pepper on the popcorn?.. Its great.. Gills are still biting

Keith, you seem unconcerned, almost passive! You must believe "life is too short!" You are wise beyond your years.

Life IS too short to worry about this crap. Carry on...

Policy changes are almost always incremental. Think steering a battleship v. whipping around on a jet ski. It takes time and trends and data.

Relax and steer. You will not be able to whip this ship. It's all going to be OK.

Well Dave the older I get the less I know. Its 5 am and I was just happy I woke up. I've fought a ton of fights on an array of issues..as much as I love to hunt whitetails, I wish there was this much passion for other wild life... There use to be more in Indiana than just deer...

Uhhh...we have the same habitat as Ohio and Illinois..? Age of herd is in fact associated with our regs. Common sense is all that is needed to understand this. When are bucks most visible..typically? When is our gun season? How long is our gun season? Why do our bucks not get the chance to grow? Easy questions with simple answers.

Wake up. It's all about quality aka mature bucks if you couldn't figure out what quality meant. Not quality of the hunt but quality of the herd. Can't believe this has to be explained. U guys ever see the guys in the gas stations when ur headed out for an am hunt..the guys who have on all their camo including their boots? I feel like that is the crowd I'm associating with on here..for the most part anyways. I always laugh a lil when I see these guys and they look at you like "what's so funny" ha. Uhh u funny man

Arguments about season timing, season length and equipment choices aside, I'm looking forward to the season.

We've finally gotten some good rain here in the southern part of the state, and our plots and bean field are looking good. Our stands are set and my bow, crossbow and .44 mag rifle are all sighted in.

Looking forward to October.

Come on Sept 15th!!

Agreed

Can't we just get along and hunt? If we keep it up, we will be replaced by some sharp shooters in helicopters. Bring on the urban season!

Nope..

Ha, camo is way over rated. I have killed plenty of deer while wearing a flannel shirt and tennis shoes. I do fill up the night before though. =)

Everybody has an opinion on when gun season should fall and how long it should be.

Personally, I like to see the testosterone fueled mature bucks on their feet dogging a doe when have a 150 yd+ weapon in my hands.

My crossbow is dialed in and urban deer season opens in a short 2 and a half months!!

I never said we didn't have the same habitat as Ohio or Illinois... I just merely pointed out that genes and habitat have more to do with quality of our herd then regs...

You wonder why our bucks can't grow?... Well golly gee hunters go out and shoot them, that's why and changing our regs will not change that... Hunters will still go out and shoot them... I've been to other state hunting forums and they pee and moan about never seeing big bucks or deer for that matter just like you do...

Joe posted pics last year of a big 6 pointer on his property... He also stated that that buck has always been a 6 pointer... He never grew any more points because Mother Nature intended for that to happen... So even if we changed our regs, it doesn't necessary equate to bigger bucks...

I've asked a guy who lives in Iowa if their bucks are really big and told me all the big bucks from Iowa come from big outfitters that set up shop there but the average deer hunter would be very lucky to see that deer that big outside of those places...

As far as your "quality" statement goes... You and I have different opinions on what quality means to us... I equate quality as the experience of the hunt, you equate quality as to the size of its rack... To each is own I guess... In another topic you stated that you "hunt your butt off" with your bow... Care to elaborate what you mean by that... Do you hunt from a stand or do you hunt from the ground doing spot and stalks?

Yup... Reminds me of the time I took a leak off my buddy's ladder stand and a few minutes later a fawn walked right through it with its nose to the ground and it never even flinched from it...

As long as you don't make any sudden moves most deer will ignore you if they don't feel threatened...

False.....


False.....

Depends on the type of regs changed Dew.

Obviously.......

Also, the deer hunters in Iowa are having some fun themselves in regard to how they view the Iowa DNR and the proposed changes, mostly around antlerless issues. I guess Indiana's DNR isn't the only DNR thats under pressure from crazed deer hunters.

So Deer and Deer Hunting Magazines are full of lies then huh? Genetics, habitat, the overall environment has more to do with a bucks antlers then regs do.. So their contributors (who mostly are retired biologists) are full of crap and don't know what they are talking about but someone who probably doesn't have a degree in Biology knows it all, right... Well golly gee folks there you have it... Who needs a degree in Biology when you have "Dew" around because he knows it all and he is the "expert"... :rolleyes:

So this guy is a liar then huh?... A guy who lives and owns land in Iowa is liar because of what he told me... Do you know this guy personally or something? How or why would you call someone a liar that you don't know?

This guy never has to worry about me going to Iowa or any other state to hunt whitetails because why pay to do something there that I can do here for basically nothing... If I'm gonna spend good money on a hunting trip it sure as heck isn't gonna be wasted on that.... I would rather hunt something that I can't hunt here...

Just like Illinois' DNR and several other mid-western states' DNRs......

......And I would bet now that Ohio is allowing PCRs there are plenty of bow hunters there who have (and will continue to) voice their displeasure to the ODNR (and to one another on the hunting forums).

In other words...different state, different year, same arguments....LOL.

Before you dig the hole your in any deeper...I would suggest you ask a deer biologist what he feels is the primary factor driving overall discrepancies in buck quality between Indiana and other states like Iowa and Ohio.

The answer will be the fact Indiana has a 16 day firearm season in the heart of the rut....and states like Iowa and Ohio offer much shorter post rut firearms seasons. Indiana has plenty of good genetics and offers a virtual smorgasboard of prime habitat. What Indiana does not offer is a legitimate chance for our bucks to reach maturity....and that has EVERYTHING to do with season lengths and timing. But I don't have a degree in deer biology...so don't take it from me.

Also, and this is just some free advice...you should probably leave out the mocking tones (well golly gee) when debating a topic with someone that brings ALOT more knowledge to the table than you are able to provide. Makes you look the fool to the rest of those reading.

So, you "asked a guy"....seriously? Maybe you should seek out a better source of information.

I'm "a guy"....and can tell you this:
My whiteail bowhunting experience in Iowa consists of six trips dating back to the late 90's. Two hunts took place in Zone 5 and four hunts in Zone 6. I have bowhunted both public and private land in both zones.

All hunts have been DIY (do it yourself, no outfitter and no leased land) with mid-November timing. Private land access has not been difficult. Public ground is severely under utilized. It is actually rare to see vehicles parked on public ground....even during the rut.

I have killed a few nice bucks and eaten a couple tags. BUT...the ONLY reason there aren't six record book Iowa whitetails on my wall...is my own fault. I have NEVER made a trip to Iowa that did not result in at least one opportunity to kill a P&Y deer with bow and arrow.

This coming from a guy that has only spent maybe nine or ten weeks of his life in Iowa. I can only imagine what it would be like to live there and have the opportunity to scout year round and hunt the entire season.

Funny how every time this "disagreement" about Indiana's gun season comes up, no one that dislikes the gun season in Indiana ever mentions how Kentucky's gun season starts somewhere around the 9th or so of November. And yet somehow, Kentucky hunters manage to kill some pretty good bucks year in and year out.

H*ll, even Illinois has a November gun opener.....


It just goes to show, that if we put our equipment bias aside, we'd see that there are multiple ways to manage a deer herd and provide ALL hunters with good opportunities.

Disregarding all other states and whatever you feel is a quality hunting experience would you answer me one question please.

Would more or less bucks reach maturity if IN gun's season was out of the rut and shortened?

I think that is the point some are trying to make. Granted that isn't what everybody wants... obviously. But I think it'd be pretty hard to deny that it would be easier for bucks to put on some age if gun season was moved and shortened. But I'm sure many will find a way to disagree.

I get their "point" and I'd answer your question with a simple answer, but then again the answer isn't really so simple.....

So let me ask you a few questions. If protecting bucks is the ultimate goal......

Wouldn't more bucks reach maturity if we shut down deer hunting for the entire month of November?

And wouldn't more bucks reach maturity if we didn't allow game cameras of any kind but especially "real time" game cameras during the season?

And would you be willing to do either of the above?

And finally.....even if you moved/shortened the gun season to December don't you think that more 1 1/2 to 2 1/2 year old bucks would die than do now as hunters would be less likely to pass on younger bucks?

Season length, timing, hunter attitude, hunter density, hunter access, hunter numbers, weather and so on all influence deer harvest, does and bucks. It's funny though that no one wants to give up "their" season when the bucks are most vulnerable. Probably the biggest issue though, in my opinion, becomes hunter density. Most outfitters that control large acreage don't typically want shorter seasons because that affects the opportunity for revenue. They can pretty much control the overall harvest numbers through hunter density on their properties. So, in that case, season length is meaningless. Those same outfitters probably also want to be able to hunt all weapons in the highest time of buck movement and vulnerability. So, again, it is about what's "best" for "me".

Delaney And that's exactly why I asked that very question of Cody.Query....

I highly doubt that people who primarily hunt with a bow would be willing to give up their time in the November woods. Yet, that's the very thing they expect gun hunters to do.....

JJAS, Your first four words were what I was looking for, I'll step out now and leave the disagreement for everyone else. I don't fight it anymore just leads to headaches.

But to answer your questions for me personally.
Yes
Yes
Yes
NO

That comes with the caveat that I don't consider myself the typical deer hunter.

And I hardly consider myself the typical deer hunter either.

But....my whole point with this subject is simply this. Most bow hunters wouldn't dream of giving up their time in the November woods for the sake of the buck herd they profess to want to protect. Yet many of these same bow hunters want.....no... they expect gun hunters to do the very thing they won't.

Funny and sad. Funny how so many get so worked up over the idea of moving the gun season and "protecting the vulnerable rutting bucks" from the gun hunters.

At the root of this discussion though is just plain old human selfishness.

Exactly...+1

Most wouldn't...I would.

You are not alone....

What if it really ACTUALLY was that simple.......but some need it to be "complicated" so it appears "too messy" to follow something simple they just don't want or care about.

It is relatively simple, if you determine what the primary goal is. For instance, if you only care about growing big bucks and forgetting all the other factors, its simple if you ignore everything else. Or, if you only care about the majority of hunters preference in regard to opportunity, ignoring big bucks or the herd's welfare, its pretty simple. Of course, this could go on and on. But, that's where it comes to "just don't want". When you add the aspect of what people want, you have to decide where that is prioritized, or course after assurance the deer herd is biologically sound.