Sounds EXACTLY like my situation Cody. I have even went to NOT hunting at ALL during the rut, and entire firearms season for several years now, just so I don't take a chance on running deer off our property to their certain death!!! Joe keeps saying "look in the mirror" to who's at blame, and quit shooting. However….I'm TIRED of not shooting, and not hunting, just to try to save a couple deer. Maybe I'll just take the "Amish approach", and shoot every legal deer I can, and deal with it the following year.

How many of you guys who hunt smaller private parcels also hunt on public land to reduce pressure on the private ground??

Lots of good public land in Indiana....just have to be willing to put in the work.

I hear ya Yaz. I've leased other properties for the ability to be able to shoot now and then. I know your situation and it sucks big time.

For some reason a lot of guys on here think there situation applies everywhere and give such matter of fact can't be wrong opinions it puts people off. I suffer from it from time to time myself but I'm tryin to look at more than one side the older I get. It used to burn me up. Then one day dad said we can't own/manage everything. He was right we can only do what we can do. It would just sure be nice to feel like there was some help with regs in areas.

Jb is right, we can only manage for ourselves and what we want to experience. Some can just visualize the consequences of their actions better than others and plan accordingly. I just wish he'd realize the actions of others can throw a major wrench into the plans in some cases, Haha.

I am well aware that not everyone is going to be able to hunt in the "deer mecca". I can remember driving in Switzerland and Ripley counties and having to drive at 30mph in the dark to keep from hitting deer. Amish moved in and in a couple of years deer in those areas vanished. The folks who hunted around Versailles state park were killing huge bucks and all the does they wanted, then the state opened the park to deer reductions, the good ole days are gone now.

There are a couple of surveys from IDNR that just blow me away.

1. Majority of deer hunters hunt within 30 miles of home

Why? If you don't get what(the experience) you want at home why not travel farther to get it?

2. Twenty five percent of landowners say they have never been asked for permission to hunt ANYTHING.

If one fourth of farmers/landowners have never been approached for hunting permission we as a hunting community are lazy or just afraid to talk to people.

I have to agree with Chevy76 on hunting public land. I have friends who are willing to put in time and legwork to find good deer hunting on public ground. You might not kill a huge buck every year but look at pictures from public land on this site alone. Some people make it happen on a regular basis.

Some folks have family or work commitments that doesn't allow alot of deer hunting time, then you can't expect a deer behind every tree a big buck or a "freezer full of meat". Time and effort equals success. I like morels, my property does not grow them, I have two choices, find a property that has them and gain permission, or go to a store who sells them

As a whole deer hunters starting in the 80's bought into the story Indiana had too many deer and started the reduction. Jon Olson, Jim Mitchell and IDNR managed the deer herd, keeping the legislature andthe legislature at bay. they actually were growing the herd at a slower pace! I was told that by one of the individuals.

We get into the past decade and new equipment is introduced(you pick the tool)and hunters wanted more opportunities, pistols,modern powder muzzleloaders, pistol cartridge rifles, crossbows, all put more people in the woods at the same time. We have gun huters who would never pick up a bow until they had one cocked, a score and a trigger, womenwho wouldn't hunt because of recoilor didn't feel they could draw a bow,kids that were not "big enough to handle recoil and a legal draw weight of a bow. Now let me say, I am ALL FOR recuiting new hunters, we need them, at what costs?

I know of one "deer hunter" under six years of age, hi dad put out a food plot, he set a pop up blind, moved a desk to the blind that had a lead slide mounted to it. Once a deer entered the field he adjusted the desk and lead sled for the child and had him pull the trigger. Is that deer hunting, or just pulling the trigger?

We then add deer season that begins on September 15th for some people and continues non stop until January 31st for those same folks. People want more opprtunity, longer seasons.

People claim deer tags are too expensive, IDNR creates a bundle license, 2 does and a buck the license is good the whole season! Who is going to spend the money and not try to fill every tag?

"Opportunity" comes with a cost........

Who did it? WE DID!

The title of this thread is correct....

You Made Your Bed, Sleep In It.

Jb, I totally agree with you. Especially the part on the youth "hunting". I posted basically the same thing on another Indiana hunting forum. I begged to go and was never allowed until 12 yrs old and had some woodmanship skills of my own rather than being only a trigger man. To me it was much more satisfying and I can't help but wonder how many of these kids going out and killing big game now at around 5 will still have the passion for it when they are older. Something earned is always more valuable then something that is handed to you, imo.

http://www.ammoland.com/2013/10/new...gly-motivated-by-the-meat/#axzz2q2HvBOY0 this will be found as interesting to most and a better understanding of the bed we made 1% hun for trophys

+1...good post

I spread my hunting out all over... I hunted Fulton County on opening weekend, Union County on the Mon. and Tues. for the Reduction Hunts, Franklin County at my buddy's place for the weekend and several days after and then hunted Bartholomew County at the Camp Atterbury hunts... And saw a quite a few deer... I saw more last year but I still call this year a huge success...

I agree if people would spread their hunting out to more areas they would see more and have a better time and hunting experience... I enjoy hunting different areas so just so I can see something different for a change...

I agree with most of what you said here JB.

But that thing about landowners never being approached EVER to hunt ANYTHING? I'm calling BS. Nothing against you... but that's a crock. I believe the DNR's info on that about as much as I do the harvest numbers. After all, how in the world would you go about gathering THAT info accurately?
I've also said many times, it's EASY to get permission by simply knocking on doors. It's EASY. But if a landowner these days is willing to let a stranger hunt who knocks on his door, odds are they will let ANYBODY and EVERYBODY hunt that knocks on their door. I've been there done that and bought the T-Shirt. Get permission by knocking on doors and odds are great, that you'll be sharing that land with "joe six pack."

You yourself helped me several years ago by hooking me up with a landowner through the hunters helping farmers program. I was SO EXCITED after I talked to the guy. Drove down there(over 2 hrs) with my son to meet him... some guy who's been hunting on him for several years threw an absolute FIT right there in front of My son and I because that guy was granting me permission to hunt. It was incredibly awkward. I told the man thanks, but I don't need that crap in my life. That other guy was all but making threats to us in the event we messed up his hunting.

I'm still grateful that you took the time to help me. And what happened is in no way a reflection on you.
But that event coupled with several other attempts through family and friends to gain access and be harrassed by other hunters... I'll pass.
I'll hunt public land, or maybe someday I'll break down and lease.

Nothing I stated ws about trophy hunting. This post is about deer hunting in General........

People are concerned about the overall deer herd and their hunting experience.

Look at the number for the Meat hunter!

No dancing here on who hunts for what, this thread is about deer numbers/sightings for the "average joe".

+1... on the doubting..... "Twenty five percent of landowners say they have never been asked for permission to hunt ANYTHING"......be interesting to know how many landowners that where asked even had "hunt able" land to OFFER!!!

The details of that survey would be interesting for sure.

HS Strut:

Contrary to what some believe I have spent the past decade trying to help hunters contact landowners who are willing to let people hunt. The program you speak of was a IDNR district biologist who supplied names of landowners who were willing to let people hunt. I am sorry it was an embarassing experience for you and your son.

I do not believe IDNR can or would post a survey that is not factual....

I would ask ANYONE seeking to find more land to hunt do the following, yes it will cost a few bucks, but it is cheaper than gas.

1.Research an area you would like to hunt for a particular species.

2. Find the local newspaper.

3. Write an ad, what you are looking for in species and you will respect any and all rules. You have hunter Ed? You belong to thses groups/orginizations. And any other pro comments you can think of.......

4. Call # and a time,

We did this in Owen county several years ago and had more land than we could hunt.

We offered work in exchange, had farmers tell us "just respect property and stay out of the way".

Cost us a couple hundered dollars for an ad but.......... made friends for a lifetime. Still have property to hunt if I wanted to!

Hunters need to change to the times, they are a changing.......A handshake is far and few between.

You are going to own, lease or........hunt public in the future!

As far the survey goes, if they spoke to 4 landowners and 1 said nobody ever asked to hunt... the numbers would be factual. It's a stupid and worthless survey and I get aggravated everytime I read it.

Times have certainly changed. Leasing is the way to go for landowners. Hey, it's their land. They can do what they want with it. Including raise deer on it and let people come in and shoot them in a pen.
Guys like yourself who bought your own land will continue to have a good experience and be in a very small minority.
The rest of us will find other things to do... like hunt and fish out of state.

The lack of deer sightings for me is making me rethink how I spend my time and money going forward. The cost of a lease could quite easily send me to other states to hunt and fish.

As the famous Gundude always says: HUNT ON!

I'm about as famous as my last bird dog.. and he was a good one!! You all aren't going to get enyththing done on a website get with it and hunt on!

It would not make any diff. I would say no. but after 10 years where I live on the Switz., Jeff. Co. Line NOT ONE person has asked me to hunt so I believe it

There ya go........ another land owner/Throbak..... in 10(ten) years no one has drove down his road and asked for permission to hunt...........

Again it is not the "state's" fault, we created the problem...................

Joe.. your a friend of mine.. but I'm just gonna come out and say it.. your banging your head against a
Wall.. pav figured it out and so did jack.. you just can't fix stupid... your buddy.. Keith..
Hunt on!

I agree, not sure why so many are intimidated to go knock on doors or make some calls.

Seems like many hunters just want to sit at their computers, get on a leasing website, find a place, and punch in their credit card numbers....

"Indeed its easy to see the conundrum. Either view is rooted in philosophy. There's an attitude often accepted that assumes no matter what, we ought to be rescued (regardless whether its individuals or enterprise). Is there any end to the entitlement mentality? Essentially, we have a latter day doctrine saying that Darwin is wrong and **** well intend to prove it."

I thought I'd post this comment up from another website talking about a totally different issue. This was a post by a gentleman in California but I think it pretty much sums up what we are dealing with. The "we ought to be rescued". "We" have for years wanted more tags, more season, more opportunity, more weapons, more, more, more. (Generally speaking) And now, when one aspect of the "more" starts running low, the very entity that was asked to constantly provide "more" is now being ridiculed and asked to "rescue us" by saving the deer herd. But of course, the issue will always remain who has to, or is willing to, give up some of their "more" to benefit the big picture.
__________________

gun dude, are you calling me stupid? It won't get you in trouble. I won't accuse you of name calling. I just want to know... Was that directed at me?

I've said many times: I could go knocking on doors today and I'd get permission several times TODAY. But the likely hood of it working out is slim.
Besides, why in the heck would a guy buy, maintain, pay taxes and drive to the ohio river when it's as easy as knocking on doors an hour from his door and getting permission to hunt more land than he can hunt?
There's a reason people are leasing. It's because of what I keep saying. It's one thing for the landowner to WANT to lease. But the reason guys are PAYING it is because they want a better experience than what they get knocking on doors.
Jim Irsay desires to own a football team. He desires to pay the players millions and charge lots of money to sell seats to come watch it. If the people decide it's too much money, jimmy is screwed. People want that experience and are willing to pay big money for it. Even though they could go watch football at their local HS or colleges for next to nothing It ain't the same.

Same thing here. Hunters are obviously willing to pay lots of money for exclusive permission. According to the DNR, those people are all LAZY, because all they have to do is knock on doors. I'm not stupid. Currently not willing to pay and sick of bad experiences.
I'm also quite certain I'm in the majority as we'll.

HS is correct on the leasing part....I want a quality experience when I am hunting deer. I want deer relatively un-pressured... You can call me greedy, I dont care, but I want exclusive hunting right to a property...I dont want to share. I dont want some yahoo screwing up what work I have done to the property I'm on by walking under me at first light or killing the buck Ive watched grow for the last 3 years or stealing my cameras. I dont have the cash to buy land, but I do have the cash to lease land and lease I will do. I will treat the land and the wildlife on it better than the landowner 'prolly will. I want to enrich the land. I want wildlife to thrive and not treat deer like a pest.

If I and my buddy can team up with surrounding landowners to do this, so much the better. we can create a fantastic hunting ground. Some on here have done just that or own enough land to be able to protect the deer they have on it and MANAGE the property as they see fit and not be bothered by excessive kills(unless needed). 2-4K is easier to manage to find land than paying a fortune to own it.....

Your statement on leasing vs. owning is perplexing because you realize that if you would have saved the money you spent on a lease for the last 17 years that you probably could have bought a very nice tract of land for that and own it outright....

Me personally, think that leasing is incredibly dumb and not a worthwhile investment (like leasing a car)because the deer you take off from it ended up costing a fortune.... Also with leasing the actual owner can raise the cost up from year to year and make it even more prohibitive and can make certain rules... IMO owning is better because you can dictate the rules because you own it...

Now what you guys do with your money is by all means your business and by no means will I tell anyone what to do with their money...

I'm not crazy about leasing. However, I see one distinct advantage on leasing over owning. With the current set of deer regulations, and liberal limits, you may get stuck owning a property with neighbors surrounding you, like I have all around me. If you lease, its pretty easy to move on to another piece of property, until you find one that suits you.

Very true. Excellent point and an advantage to leasing.

Another advantage to leasing is you're not bound to "one state".....your money can be used in multiple states to increase your "bucket" of what you want to pursue.....assuming you don't blow all your leasing $$ in one spot.

my lease for the last 17 years was only $200 a year. 40 acres, but what was around it that made it so good until "others" started hunting the surrounding land and killing everything in sight...now we want way more land, like 200+ acres...we'll get it, just a matter of time and finding the right spot....

Even if JTV's lease was $2,000/year, that sure would not "buy" very much land over a 17 year period. The $200/year he paid annually on that 40 acres likely didn't even cover the taxes.

Buying property is a **** of alot more expensive than leasing. Do the math.

do it right and the property pays for itself. And regardless, when you buy you own. That investment can be flipped for a profit.

lease money is gone. period

Land. They aint making any more of it.

And in the right spot, twenty acres will do ya.

I hear people say that...and have done some research, but what I've found doesn't seem to make a significant dent in what I can afford.

Tillable land is a no brainer...but also EXTREMELY expensive on the front end.

Timber is another no brainer, but unless you are dealing with someone completely clueless, you will pay for marketable timber up front as well.

Enrolling the property in governemt programs has some potential...and may even EVENTUALLY "pay" for the property...but the bank isn't going to wait that long for their money.

Buying recreational land is an expensive proposition. What I'm hearing from lenders is a minimum 20% down and fifteen years to pay it off.
So, if a guy buys $100,000 piece of property (which won't be very big)...he coughs up $20,000 on the front end...and even at todays low interest rates...gets saddled with a $600/monthly payment (7,200/year...plus taxes and insurance).

If one has the required cash up front, one option would be buying land with a house on it...and selling off the house. That helps with the down payment and term, but just make sure you can handle it financially if the house doesn't sell for a couple years.

Don't know why...but I do have this desire to buy a place of my own. Just not sure it makes financial sense? I would not be buying with the intent of flipping it...and axctually would hope it stayed in the family after I'm gone.

The most I've ever spent in one year for lease ground is $1,200...and that was for two tracts in different states. That's close to what I pay the government every year at property tax time for what I already own.

If I'm missing something here...please enlighten me....and that means anybody.

A lot of this depends on how old a person is and how many years they would intend to lease, how big of a property they would like to buy and where they can get a better return ion their money and of course how much discretionary income they have. Also, how close to home it is so as to factor travel costs. Everyone's analysis of this would be different for them.

My minimum interest would be in tracts at least double that...but definitely looking at something bigger.

People seem to be pretty proud of those 20 acre tract$....based on the price per acre. Most generally (but not always), as the size of the tract increases, the price per acre decreases. Trick is going to be figuring out maximum bang for the buck.

One other quick thing. If all a person is interested in is shooting a 140'ish buck, fair chase, and not having the season round/year round experience of hunting, for the cost of a lease or even amortized value of land and the other expenses such as weekly travel and such, going to a good outfitter is arguably the best financial decision.

Shame on you Dave...for using the "O" word!

That isn't hunting its shooting! Its all setup.....you just pull the trigger or hit the release

Agreed Dawn. My only point is the financial issue is a bit of how people define hunting and recreation and whether the value experience vs outcome of harvest.

I own a farm in IN, lease in IL and typically do an annual guided hunt somewhere too. Speaking from first hand experience, I can tell you that a deer killed on farm ground you bought for hunting will be by far the most expensive venison you ever chewed on.

For the cost of owning the farm, taxes, investments in equipment for maintenance, food plot costs, fuel, etc. etc. I could easily hunt Alaska every year cheaper.

The notion that you can find a piece of hunting ground that will pay for itself is largely fiction. If that was doable, everyone would have their own hunting land.

I really recommend leasing in another state. Better than outfitted hunts, because you can keep going back all season and hunt as much as you want. Also with IN being one buck, you have a chance to hunt the other state and pick up a second buck. If you hook up with a good partner or two it's pretty affordable, and those little 3-4 day trips are a bunch of fun.

It is/was 7 miles from the house. It ts close, I could keep and eye on it and I had the run of the place... The farmer and I made a great friendship thru the years....heck, I was hoping he'd put it in his will for me...lol... I hope his son will re-lease it once all is settled....or maybe even sell it to me and my buddy.... I cant afford to purchase much, that is why a good lease is important. We can lease more land than what we could purchase.... so, if anyone knows of someone want to lease 100-200+ acres of good deer land let me know..... it has to be around 1 hour or so from NW Indiana with exclusive rights....right now land around NW Indiana is going from $5000 to 12,000 and acre !! Makes purchase of a big tract impossible. I can get a lease fairly easy down around Indy, Parke co, Hamilton, or further south but that is to far to go on a daily basis, heck, its to far to go on a weekly basis. Plus to be able to keep an eye on it ?....I'd castrate the first trespasser I would catch....

The fantasy of owning hunting land continues to surface in my dreams. But I will be mortgage and almost debt free in 3 years, at age 49. The thought of having another frigging mortgage will keep me from doing it.

I may lease when I get old and the landowners that let me hunt die off. I am very fortunate to have family in friends with property in 3 great counties.

Then again, I just bought a camper on a campground at Monroe. Lots of public ground down there. Based on the sign in the snow, there's plenty of deer. Bow season should be pretty good around me down there. I don't have much hope for gun seson though. Might even be dangerous.

Farm property is $10,000 an acre around me. My neighbor told me the realtor said it's going up to 15,000 because of the recent close-by development. CRP and the state wildlife habitat keep my taxes affordable. h.h.

The amount of property you can secure by leasing instead o buying is absurd and anybody who seriously thinks you could pay for the kind of property you can lease is insane. I had access to 1200 acres last year and spent 1500. In 100 years I might be able to buy 30 acres at that price if I got a **** of a deal.

Ridiculous to compare the two in terms of expense. If you want a place solely for deer hunting there is no comparison between leasing and owning in terms of bang for your buck. Anybody who disagrees with that doesn't have much experience with either.

I'd have to agree with Cody ans Steiney on this one. I own 22 acres outright with 10 of it tillable ( cash rents @ $225) and a commercial property with two tenants. I'll spare you all of the LLC nuances and costs that aren't usually considered by someone who hasn't been in that postition before (unless you really want to know).

If your main purpose is to grow big bucks and have great hunting experiences, leasing will be dramatically cheaper and more importantly, dramatically less risky. It only really makes sense financially if you can put a big chunk down and you are approaching it as adding another aspect to a portfolio (again I'll elaborate if you really want to know).

@ Bryan78: i own a 2006 f150 i purchased in 2009 and paid for it with cash (25k mi. on it), During the last 7 years I have leased 3 SUVs of comparable price to a new f150. Which is the better investment? (yes, this is a trick question)