OBR

Is it really helping to grow big bucks in Indiana?

No

Yes

Oh brother...... obr is here to.stay... move on... how many does.a.guy need a year anyway?

I agree. Obr is a dead issue. Like it or not, it's here to stay.

We are still killing the same amount of bucks we did before the OBR so that has not changed anything.

The herd appears to be getting larger and hunters seem to me geared towards self management. Im my opinion thats why we have bigger bucks than we did 20 years ago.

http://www.in.gov/nrc/files/item_10_nrc_january_2012.pdf

Looks to me like it was getting better before OBR, but it looks like OBR accelerated it.

The OBR was preliminary adopted today by the Natural Resources Commission with little discussion and no opposition. Probably a dead issue.

HJ, when does the NRC meet? I would like to start paying more attention to the men behind curtain.

Good chart Matt.

Straight from page 2 of the NRC agenda item 10 posted on here the other day.

Jack

Jack, I hate to read! LOL. I'm a bullet point type of guy.

does yearling deer mean 1 1/2 year old deer?

Yearling (plural yearlings)

1. an animal that is between one and two years old

whats an animal that is less than a year?

tender and tasty....

Haha... nice Brew. big +1

The NRC site posts times of meetings (every other month)and their agenda is posted here:

http://www.in.gov/nrc/2350.htm

Jack

Thanks jack, I added all the meeting to my calender for the 2012 year. Ill start making these.

Holy cow we have another one willing to go to the meetings?...

Yep, it's time to start paying closer attention to what the men behind the curtian are doing.

How could anyone possibly think the OBR isn't working?!!! Just look at the quality of bucks that are being killed in Indiana over the last several years! There are definitely more bigger bucks being killed than ever before...

Lots of other factors in play...better management, hunters passing more smaller bucks, better nutrition (food plots/minerals/etc).

To attribute the increase in age class of IN deer harvest solely to OBR is a mistake.

I agree Lung

Lungbuster is exactly right.

+1.....

I agree that changing attitudes has done much to improve the buck population. As was stated, passing up younger bucks, food plots, minerals and reducing the doe population is a huge part of this.

Kinda makes you wonder what would have happened if the firearms tags had been either sex....It couldn't have hurt and with the tags buck only it most definetly doomed a lot of young bucks to an early death.

Good points Pav. In addition to crossbows now (starting this year) being used in what was early archery season, look at the technology improvements in vertical bows in the last 10 years. Manufacturers have greatly improved the mechanical advantage in holding the bow at full draw for extended periods of time. They have improved range finders and sights. I believe there is now a sight that includes a built in range finder that "puts the sighting dot" just where you need to hold in order to hit the target. In my opinion it would be much, much easier for a lot more hunters to “double dip” now than did 10 years ago. And, I believe that a lot more hunters would do just that if given the opportunity.

OBR was the catalyst that helped changed how I hunt. Plus other things like knowledge, experience, maturity, and deer management. OBR was definately a big part of it. I say leave it as is.

me too !

me three!

As I read other sites on the comments of the OBR ....a few things come to mind......

One of the complaints thrown at the OBR crowd is "you just want a trophy buck around every tree".............well, let's look at that for a second.......

1) The OBR was NOT designed from DAY ONE by our IDNR to grow more "Trophy Deer".........It was to be a regulation tool to actually help manage the entire deer herd size. The logic was that as long as hunters had bucks they could hunt.........they would NOT likely hunt does. The OBR gained traction then as it was to be a tool to still support taking a buck..........but also get the guys to focus on doe hunting sooner. People often forget that......

2) In an OBR model you STILL can shoot little bucks........nobody says you can't............so if the woods has more mature deer roaming around.........it also has more little deer roaming around too.............and NOBODY says you can't shoot the little bucks if you want. The crying tends to come from those that have NO restraint on not shooting bucks.........but they want to shoot multiple bucks to make up for the Big Boy they are NEVER likely going to see because of their itchy trigger finger........hence they like to point their finger at something else to blame (the guys that can practise restraint/the OBR crowd). They see the Big Boys being taken by those that manage............and to counter that they want to be able to say "well, you took that big 10 pt.....but I took two bucks". They still want to appear as if they are "something"........but in an OBR system..........they can't do that...........and it drives them SILLY!!! Their innabililty to manage their trigger finger...........their innability to work with their neighbors..........their innability to put work and effort into something any way they can.............just shines stronger. And when they think they have a chance to kill off OBR guidelines that make them look silly.............they will want it DEAD......and I mean DEAD!!

3) I never, Never, NEVER met a hunter that didn't like the idea of hunting on my properties where the likelihood of seeing a mature buck was higher. NOT ONE HUNTER.............PERIOD!!!!!!! The thought of having "alot" of big bucks in an area just makes them drooool. So when I hear them complain that the OBR crowd "just wants a big buck around every tree"............well guess what................SO DO THEY!!!! LOL!! But they just don't want to do what it takes to get to that level in most cases..........but they will complain, and they will put stands on my borders facing my property and trimming lanes to shoot in my property, and they will tresspass, they will poach, and they will shoot the mechanical buck with CO's ready to role up against my properties...........they will do ANYTHING that is easy to do to get that Big Buck they claim they have no interest in it. Simply Stunnnnnning isn't it......... So..........waste little time attempting to make sense why they "don't want mature deer around every tree"......

4) And one last thing............ I saw a person taking a shot at the OBR crowd on another site stating......"when you have a ton of 150+ inch bucks running around the woods people wont consider them trophies anymore" ..........that was his "logic". Well.......let me tell you something folks.........If that scenario were to play out and "150+ inch bucks" were crawling all over the woods.........the "TROPHY" would be the work it took to get there. People sometimes look just at the buck laying in the truckbed as "The Trophy"..........but in reality the real "TROPHY" is the hours of scouting, running trail cams, spending time with your neighbors so you all have a good relationship and common goals, taking time to understand the animal year round, proper stand placement with all shooting lanes cleared, making sure your weapon is in perfect order, reading up on good tactics, listening to those that are successful with their tactics, washing down every day you hunt, etc etc. Those things make the "Trophy"........Those things are the "Difference". People look kinda strange at me when I tell them I deer hunt year round......had one guy tell me "that's illegal".....LOL!! I then made it clear to him when I said........"Every buck I have on that wall was not a "hunt" the day I took him........the hunting was already done........I was just there in that stand, that day, to finish the deal."........

........and that my friends is what the "Trophy" is. It is not the "Fruit", it is the "Tree". And those that just choose to "Sloth" through life just can't relate.

I think most that are not in favor of OBR are simply folks who want to shoot, shoot, shoot, to a degree. It's not terribly different in other hunting venues. If the duck bag limit falls, you hear guys cry and scream. OBR was met to achieve a better age distribution and help in spread the buck harvest. Most guys don't care about the guy next door and whether or not they have something to hunt.

I agree though that if the average becomes 150, 150 is no longer what will be considered trophy. The idealism of trophy tends to be measured by some arbitrary score, at least arbitrary when established. It's a bit goofy to me to think that a 140 inch deer is a trophy when in my opinion a 6 pointer at 120 is much more impressive than a 10 at 140. But as you say, the OBR does not limit anyones ability to shoot "the buck" they want to shoot. I'm afraid that many in the outdoors tend to measure some aspect of their manhood annually by how big of a buck or how many bucks they shoot. Generally speaking, therapy is probably what is needed for these types and not the opportunity to shoot another buck, in my opinion.

Now, passion is passion and one man's passion can certainly seem totally goofy to someone else. So, for those who put year round work into managing a property for big deer, lets forget the word trophy, good for them. Where I would draw a line is if the DNR ever moves to put a point or antler size restriction on buck harvest. While OBR might assist in the creation of bigger bucks, OBR doesn't specifically have anything to do with trophy management.

I don't care if the obr stays or goes. I've never killed more than one buck a year anyway (and there have been several years I didn't kill a buck @ all), plus the data shows most hunters didn't kill more than one buck before the obr anyway.

I've seen states that allow more than one buck killed that produce good quality bucks and I've seen states with an obr that produce good quality bucks.

Seems to me the main ingredients are to let young bucks walk, provide adequate nutrition and keep the doe numbers in check.

There is no discussion within the IDNR to go to a two buck trial period! The survey done addressed the current OBR, some have cried foul on that survey because one season hunters were surveyed. GET OVER IT, the one season hunter will always out umber those who CHOOSE to hunt with several different types of equipment.The rule before us is to drop the "five year" portion.

It is reported that Chad Stewart(Indiana deer biologist) wants to do a 3-5 year trial. Chad has never asked to do a trial, he only said that the only way to verify the OBR influence on age structure would be to return to a two buck trial period. Big difference in how it is being portrayed.

We have an individual who took IDNR's deer reduction proposal and turned it around to get crossbows legal in all seasons,now he is campaigning to do the same with the rule change on the table. Worked last time why not run that "dog" again? Answer,the same NRC guys who supported him before like the OBR..........lol.

JMO, but if you feel the need that you have to shoot two bucks, then put in for a draw hunt.

It's that simple!

Im not going to argue about the OBR as those that been around already know how I feel. What I will say is not everything expressed is exactly how it is on either site.

Majority of the hunters say they want the OBR and that is good enough for me but the only fault I see is the license structure was designed for two bucks. The OBR has been a trial for 9 years so when the trial ends and the OBR is adapted the license structure should also be changed. h.h.

What license structure changes would be beneficial........just asking........not a "trick question".

If I were running the DNR, I'd increase the cost of a buck license considerably. Little buck or big buck, the apparent value of a buck to hunters is significant. Thus, I'd increase a buck only tag to, oh $75. If the DNR goes back to two bucks, I'd make the second buck tag $125. I'd run the DNR like a business and look at Indiana's wildlife as value. The DNR would be foolish to return to two bucks without assessing the value of the second buck.

Dang good idea..........

Quote of the Day Award..........

Dang Delaney.......your on FIRE today!!!

Dew, One license, good for a buck in archery or gun. The muzzle loader license is either sex now.

Or, take away the either sex archery tag and make the archery hunter buy a buck tag and bonus anterless tags just like the gun hunter has too. Fair is fair, right? h.h.

Delaney I agree with you Delaney. And while I'm certainly not talking about you, I do find it interesting that many who tend to showcase the behavior of which you speak, fail to recognize it in themselves, while accusing others of it.....

I can understand two things........

1) I can understand the logic in your quote. I seriously can.

2) I can understand the IDNR's position of gleeeening every $$ they can out of the most profitable animal we have to hunt in Indiana with the license cost/sales structure.

........and at times we both probably find it frustrating how to blend both concepts. I have ideas.....you have ideas.......but who would listen. And listening doesn't mean "pacify"......listening would mean "action".

Bottom line is that there is a segment of outdoorsmen who think hunting is an entitlement program. Hunt with what you want where you want. Public or private land. License fees are to high already.... Yet they spend 1000s on equipment they really dont need anyway..
Obr.. Is doa right now and if it ever changes I hope there is a drastic increase in fees.....

Dave makes a good point. We have forgotten what hunting is all about

I agree with you Delaney. And while I'm certainly not talking about you, I do find it interesting that many who tend to showcase the behavior of which you speak, fail to recognize it in themselves, while accusing others of it..... [/QUOTE]

Good point jjas..........the question then becomes as an "onlooker" and "judge" of those that put up big buck pictures year after year......do you take into consideration......

1) Are they also shooting does and encouraging others to shoot does? Do they practise what they preach? On my site we also have a doe contest........we showcase doe pics.......we award those that do well with helping manage the herd. I myself shoot more does than bucks each year......EVERY year. But you are right.......it does get disturbing to see "just antlers" showcased by some.....NOTHING else contributing to managing the "whole herd" concept.

2) Are they patting the guys on the back that shoot small bucks just like they pat a guy on the back for shooting does? Are they patting gus on the back that shoot other Big Bucks? Are they supportive to guys not getting a deer and try to help them with advice? Bottom line.....are they actively helpful and supportive of their fellow sportsman deer hunter at all levels. I get a little kink in my neck when I only see pics of "theirs"......but no other support or congrats of "others" no matter what level they would be. I gotta tell ya.....a model poster here that pats everyone on the back no matter what they have accomplished is DEC.....he has made a practise of that.....a model that many should consider.

3) Are they just "Stickers", and "Association"??.....this type of guy gives me a little chuckle too, and can go straight to "worrisome" pretty quick. Can't see out of their back window because of the massive "Bow Brand" sticker or Rack Stickers or Camo Brand stickers.........or the whole dang truck is wrapped in something telling everyone "I HUNT BIG DEER"......not to mention their 4 wheeler has stickers or ads on it too......and a deer bobble-head on the dash.....and a deer antler rubber cover for their trailer hitch ball. Just Comical.......but a true indication that its going to take "getting noticed" for them to feel as an accomplishment in this thing called "life". Now......we all need recognition.......I understand that........but beware of when "I NEED RECOGNITION AT ALL COSTS" is written all over someone that they can't even see to back up their truck. That's why I like the group I run with on my site.......no stickers on our trucks......no brand we have to be associated with........no website address on everything we drive or own.......etc, etc. Just good people that love hunting and love to support hunting.......and we know that's not done with a sticker.....it's done with a handshake. One of the funniest stories I have is about a few of these "types"........happened in southeast Ohio not too long ago. Was at a campground with a "Hunting Sticker Group" that was camping and deer hunting next to our campsite. They saw a treestand laying out side of my camper.....and here they come. I got an "education" from them......in an hour I was told how to hunt for big bucks in SE Ohio, and if I did what they said by wear certain camo, using certain scents, using a certain range finder, and by joining their website (which they had a business card for).....I was surely going to be a better hunter. I just listened......smiled.....and didn't say a word other than "thanks for the advise". Well the next morning I rolled into camp with a buck pushing 160 inches......and of those 4 guys at my campsite the day before, just the younger one came over that day and asked me some questions about the hunt while the rest of the "Sticker Crew" just stayed put. I wished him luck for the rest of their hunt......and he kinda snickered and said "none of us have ever seen or shot something like that, so were going to be needing ALOT of luck". And as he walked away.......I knew what kind of "camp" he was walking back to.......and I actually felt bad for the kid 'cause I knew from what he said......and the behavior out of the others...........he was in "Sticker/Association/Identity/Egomaniac Camp"........not "Hunting Camp". Word to the wise......pick your hunting buddies that are ALREADY solid with themselves as people first, and don't need some "sticker" to be their identity.

So yes jjas.........there is a difference between those that put up Big Buck Pics......their finger print of who they really are is quite easy to see.......the wisdom in the "onlooker" though is the ability to see and accept the "difference". The difficulty sometimes lays with the "onlooker" though that just sees "Big Buck Pictures" by successful hunters.......and throws them into the same "trash bin" in their mind as those that just eat antlers for breakfast, lunch and supper and goes to bed at night turning off their antler lamp and pull up the covers with a quilt with some massive buck print on it............

My 2 cents........

Ive been hunting since I was 9 years old and im 60 now. Ive bought a hunting license every year until I got my lifetime. I think my first license was 2.00 or 2.50. Hunting was a cheap way to feed your family as there were no deer in my area in the late 50's early 60's.

In the last 10-15 years hunting has lost its true meaning and turned into a trophy competition, its happened with fishing also.

When this happened all manufactures started increasing prices on equipment. The word "magnatitus" became the norm. If something wasnt bigger and expensive it wasnt any good. Look at the prices of broadheads, bows, slugs,...ect...ect and 30 years ago who would thought someone would pay 35.00 for a bottle of deer pee...?????

I think the change is a generational thing and as an old guy I can clearly see the changes and I dont like them, but seems the younger guys do so maybe its time to step back and let them make the decisions as they will be the ones that have to live with them. h.h.

Dew I wasn't referring to anyone in particular, but if people see themselves in my comment, then perhaps some self reflection is a good thing.

BTW, If "someone" gets their jollies sleeping under a big buck quilt I don't care......I'd find it weird, but to each their own.....

HH, I certainly agree on many of your comments. The old guys usually have a much different view then the young guys in most hunting and fishing sports. I also believe that urbanization has changed many in that while a lot of guys hunt, they don't have much "appreciation" for the kill, kill, kill idealism that some more so country folks might have. I believe many of the urbanish folks dont see hunting as a necessity to them personally and that's why they don't engage more in issues. In regard to cost, I still look at what inflation would have done to the fees from the 1950's and as such, hunting license fees are very reasonable and a great buy at a much higher cost than they are today. The high cost of equipment isn't an issue because that is also discretionary income use which is all up to the consumer. It's obviously not needed to simply shoot something.

What I do t care for today is the lack of respect for the wildlife and the fellow sportsmen that I believe is widespread amongst hunters. Also, the lack of both personal and peer accountability. Sportsmen don't step up in those regards in my opinion, generally speaking. But, times change and the older you get the more those changing times tend to bother a person.