Deer harvest so far

2424 deer harvested so far since Sept 15

Wow I think you might be over your limit Lol

12,210 deer checked in so far this year

Well I've only killed 2 of those! LOL

The only one I've seen was walking out the trail on the opposite side of the woods from me. Way too far for a bow shot. LOL

16448 checked in

How is this compared to last season at this time... anyway of finding out ??

Last year same date

19410 As of Sunday, November 1, 2015 .

18,044 @ 8 pm

22,463 ,


23,819 at 1:44pm this date last year


Opening morning of last years gun season we were at 30,356

68,436 checked in so far

Where do you guys look for last years total numbers on a daily basis?

77,252 now.....2000 MORE than this date last year

75,106 last year on the 18 the at 9 am


Here ya go, stinger


http://hunt-indiana.com/thread/54597/date-deer-harvest-numbers

That's no good

My take is HPR is making a difference !!!If it is just another weapon to Harvest a deer that would have been taken with something else It should level off later on if not your going to see a big jump when The Late Doe gun is over I'm saying 130, 000 for grand total If they (HPR) don't effect harvest other than another choice Same or little less than last year

At this point in the firearms season (when comparing last years firearms season harvest data versus this firearms seasons rough data), the harvest numbers are within 1,000 deer of one another.

I think the warmer weather has helped in higher numbers of deer taken and more hunters staying in the woods longer...

Also, the Firearm Season start date started on the 12th of this year (which is the earliest it can start) vs say the 18th (which is the latest it can start) so we started during the middle of the rut vs. end of the rut...

The buck I took on Sunday was chasing a Doe, but I bet if it had started the 18th, then it might be less likely that he wouldn't have been chasing her...

weather has been great!

Kill seems to be up if my processor being FULL and seeing way more deer than usual is any indication.

I think I'm seeing about the same kill as prior years. Gun season came in so early that maybe the numbers jumped quickly. I believe it will level off but may be a few more than past....just my guess.

Throbak, are your Amish neighbors rocking the HPR'S or are they still rolling old school?

They have HPR most down here Did anyway heard last shots AFTER 6:00 last night really dark

85,270

Thanks!

92,302.

96269

99,052

104,100

Compare that number to this time last season ......

105,814 the Monday after gun season last year.

1,714 difference... Pretty much par... Guess with the allowance of rifles, it wasn't all doom and gloom as predicted...

I'm still not sold. The rifles had to make some difference, we just have no idea how much difference. Even with rifles, we're down...not up.

We've had two consecutive years of great weather the entire 16 day firearm season....with virtually zero crops in the fields....and both years were peak rut timing. Next year, the firearms season comes in a week later. It will be interesting to see those results following the two back to back years we've had.

I hunted good private ground the last 12 days of archery season and my deer sightings were less than 1/3rd of the 2014 total....a little more than 1/3rd the 2015 total. Some of that was due to the heat I'm sure. How much, I don't know? Yes, I'm concerned...and yes, I hope I'm wrong.

This isn't a post directed at you, or rifles. But you won't be able to make that statement until the end of next 2017-2018 season. Rifles are and will continue to be the "great equalizer" in Indiana now. You can't tell me that the inclusion of rifles this year, didn't make the fewer deer we currently have more accessible to a portion of the hunting population. That will initially give us a false sense of having a bigger population than we really have. Even WITH the rifles, we are lower than we were last year without them. It will be interesting to see.

It is impossible to draw any conclusion at this point. Even when we get all the data we can in Indiana we are speculating. There are just too many variables we don't correct for. But it is pretty easy to make the argument that our deer herd is stable based on overall harvest for the past few years. The stated DNR goals have been met. I speculate that any serious hunter will kill the number of deer s/he wants regardless of tool used. I am sure a few more deer are killed that might not have been killed if the hunter was forced to use a 100 yard gun instead of a 150 yard gun but I bet that is not many. The buck I killed with my rifle would have been dead with my scoped shotgun with sabots either way.

I understand that with the first year of rifles being used you cannot draw a conclusion... My post for the most part was more a jab at the people who said our deer are gonna be slaughter to oblivion and such on opening day...

I cannot speak for anyone else's hunting experience this season but I only went out two days (opening weekend) and saw quite a bit of deer activity on Saturday and only saw three Sunday which two were bucks and I took the mature buck at around 8:30 am...

I have not hunted since and will not for the rest of the year... I had half a deer from last year and got this big buck so I am set... My buddy's wife said she has not seen very many deer this year at their property and I took the doe I have left from last year from there...

First it was the crossbows going to decimate the herd, now rifles. Smh

Only thing changing is the tool used, outcome still the same. Whether by longbow, recurve compound muzzleloader shotgun pistol or rifle....dead deer is a dead deer. Harvest numbers will be as they always have. Sky is still up above us, it isn't falling....neither is the deer herd

2015 Tuesday after gun ended: 106,778

2016 Tuesday after gun ended: 104,706

This is a 2% decline year-over-year. If that holds, we will kill 121,200 deer this year. That's still a little more than 2014.

How did you come up with the 121,200?

Extrapolation would be my first guess.

2% reduction from last year's 123,664 killed. I rounded a bit.

Actually the gun season kill is up last year the number of deer killed during the firearms season was 74,911 (according to the chart in the 2015/16 harvest report). This season the rough data totals 77,381 deer killed during the firearms season for a difference of approximately 2,470 deer so far.At that pace we may well be UP 2% with the seasons left.

This is rough data it will likely change +/- when the final report comes out.

Time will Tell....

The company I work for is "maintaining" overseas profits during a major economic downturn. Some would say we're not growing overseas. I believe the only way we are maintaining profits is due to increased market share (we are growing) ...and this will become evident over time.

The state in which I live/hunt is "maintaining" annual deer harvest numbers. Some would say we're not damaging the herd. I believe the only way we are maintaining harvest numbers is due to increased opportunity/longer range weapons (we are doing damage) .....and this will become evident over time.

Again, I hope I am wrong!

What is forgotten here with numbers is a couple of points............

1. How many deer were taken that would have been out of range with our other hunting tools? My neighbor took a TOAD of a buck opening morning with a 318 yard shot, he admits that that deer would not have come within range with gun he used last year. Heard from a youth hunter who killed his first, a doe, at 225 yards with a 30-06. His dad said "shoot the bullet can reach it", would not have said that last year with a slug gun or PCR. And who knows how many other long range shots were taken and a wound and lost deer occurred.

2. Most importantly we had legislative action on a wildlife rule! Oue IDNR took the very same rule package to the people and it did not gain enoug support to approve the HPR. A legislator and his sons then develop a statute that over rides IDNR rules and policy. They left out SEVERAL deer hunting rifles(.270,25-06,6mm,.257) yet inckuded a pistol round 40sw which has far too small knock down power for deer. Sportsmen lost big time! Now we have an open door to legislative change to all hunting and fishing rules as we know them.

Use the numbers anyway you like but the Sportsmen lost! IDNR can not change statute, 5 years minimum and we know it will never change anyway...........

JB how did you guys do at your farm this year? You guys usually kill some nice ones.

Without knowing the Archery kill numbers to date, I would bet they are down when comparing previous two seasons (hot weather stunk it up)..... it was just shown the Gun numbers were up (as predicted). due to the rifles ?... we still have the "kill all the Does late gun season" left, and of course ML, late archery usually dosnt produce much..... I will predict around 124,000+ for the full season, as the deer reduction zones will take their toll, but to a smaller extent in Jan ....

Parrot we are down on big bucks harvested, target bucks have not cooperated. I have passed the same 140 plus 8 three times so far. My rule is if I let you walk once... you get free pass for the season pics of him later, 15 yards on last day of gun.

Does will eat just fine if a target deer doesn't show..

I've been hunting the same ground since 03. Through these 14 seasons I have definitely noticed less deer, and less bucks. In my opinion, the huge bonus limit has hurt the population to the point that I know a few guys who have lost interest because they aren't seeing anything good like they used to.
With that being said, this year has been different. I have seen more deer, and more nice bucks than I have in 10 years. Might just be luck as others close by haven't seen much this year.

Well, all I know is the local Fish and Wildlife areas are not what they used to be.....Kingsbury is 7280 acres, some water of course, used to kill upwards of around 300 deer yearly, last season they had 93 !! ..... Jasper Pulaski Fish and Wildlife 8142 acres, some water..used to be in the high 200's, had 126 last season(2015), 112 for 2014 ... no idea where either is at this season as neither has numbers up ...

I hunt NE Vigo Co and this is the first season in 11 years that I haven't harvested a deer or at least seen deer close enough to take, but passed on. I haven't heard even a quarter of the number of shots being taken around me either. I've seen three deer total all year, two does and a small buck, too far out and moving too fast. My father and I hunted Turkey Run 11/28-29...didn't see a single deer or any sign of any. It's certainly worrying me.

I did the Dunes hunt this year (why is beyond me as I said I'd never do it again)... I'm done with the park hunts for sure this time...lol... Anyways, I had preset my stand this time around a week in advance (a portable).. and of course some old over the hill geeser set up about 125-150yds to my front left, just north of where I killed that 160"er in 2012... had another guy to my front right 150yds away in a climber and another 250yds to my right in a ladder stand(he killed a single Doe), these two both left at noon wheelin' the one guys Doe out..(buddies I guess).. This old guy cut me off from the trail I knew they'd come in from... at 8:09 I heard a doe snort, looked up and he shot her and she ran and died 17yds away, to my back left..... 30 seconds later I see another deer on the same trail, he shoots again, wounds a small little 90lb busted rack spikey thing, it also runs right at me, its right leg floppin' around, I drop it in its tracks 20 yds to my front left as it comes by for the guy....so now, I have two dead deer that arnt mine, 20 yds from me....DRATS !!.. so he finally gets down, limps over and looks up at me and says "How the heck am I going to get these out of here" ?? ........ Well S O a B !! .... I mean good for him he got two deer, but guess who ended up dragging both 100+yds to the front trailhead....YUP, you guessed it....Me !! (I'm such a nice guy...lol..)....he tried, he really did try to help, but after 10 or so yards he was gasping, wheezing so bad, I thought he'd croak right there, I told him if you collapse, I aint giving you mouth to mouth...lol.... so, I took over, got the Doe to the trail head, he sat down panting/wheezing away, I went back and brought up the other.... I said as for dressing them out, your own your own.......I went back to my tree, left him there to do the rest.... he finally called the office, and they came with their Gator and took him and the deer to the check in....the Am was shot, I sat till 3pm saw zilch......went back Tues, sat till noon, saw zilch ....pulled the stand and went home...

They only had 24 killed the first day and 4 or so the second day....28-30 total..... Yep, I'll say it again, I'm done with the park hunts...lol...

That sounds just like every year of opening weekend on public ground where I hunt. LOL. I don't think people realize how lucky they are to have their own private land to hunt and not have to hunt "pressured deer" and have to compete with every other Joe blow or Betty Sue out there. I think public land is getting hammered more and more every year due to so much leasing. I too hate and hopefully never will hunt a park hunt again.

I'll say it again.. whether you own it or lease it, cherish the private land your on, and If you lease it, treat it better than the landowner ever will..... I miss having good private to myself....

look above ^^^ and you'll see where two F&W areas have plumeted to.... yea, I got a nice buck off a F&W area, but havnt seen an antlered deer there since, and very few AL's either... as a matter of fact, the one I killed was the ONLY antlered beer Ive seen there all season, and Ive been in some choice locations.... very few rubs and very few scrapes and trails look dead... maybe in late season as guys bug out, it will get better ... I doubt it .. they just aint there ...

I always tell myself this when I hunt... If I kill a buck that is ONE deer taken from the local population, period... However, when I kill a doe that is anywhere from 2-4 deer lost from the local population, (doe + 1-3 fawns)... If you take two does then it really adds up...

So if you are not seeing much deer in your area then it is probably best you let does walk since it is them that are going to bring back your local population...

X100

One of our areas we hunt has taken 13 deer this year...... 7 of those have been taken with HP rifles over 225 yards. 1/2 of the harvest in that area would not have happened without the HP in their hands.

Numbers of deer are way down....... the kill with the HP's will make it appear herd is not down significantly. If just 20% of our harvest is deer taken over 200 yards by the HP's and those would be deer not taken usually....... we just damaged the herd again severely.... and the ones that wanted or don't care we have rifles just are too ignorant to see the damage or their egos will not let them say otherwise.

The downward spiral continues on a more rapid pace......

It's a good thing though..... a shortened gun season will be the eventual "fix".

Trust me.......

I really hope the end result is not a shortened gun season. I know gun only hunters are considered lazy slobs, but that doesn't apply to all of us. Life for me has changed for the busier. Sold my bow a couple years ago because I simply don't have the time to invest in being good enough to hunt with it. Working 6 days a week leaves me little hunting time as it is. Maybe it's time to be a real slob and buy a crossbow.

Oh please, dont go to the darker side ;0) .... at least with guns, there is no hiding what they are ....

There are those who think the firearms season will be shortened/moved and have been saying so for years.

Do I think it will happen? Perhaps @ some point in time, but the firearms season(s) are still the main management tool of the IDNR @ this time (accounting for roughly 72% of the yearly harvest over the last 5 seasons) and unless/until bowhunters in this state take a larger percentage of the overall harvest on a consistent basis, I don't see much changing.

Y'all working on the assumption those long range deer would not have wondered into range either then or the next day etc.


I'll bet ten dollars to a donut gun season won't be shortened in the next decade.

Only thing that will happen is fewer bonus tags allowed

Trapper Dave At this point in time, I would agree that is a much more likely scenario as it's my understanding that the DNR doesn't have to jump through hoops to adjust the number of available bonus tags and thus the number of counties participating in the late antlerless season.

Great Email From Jasper-Pulaski Fish & Wildlife Area


"We do not have accurate up to date harvest numbers at this time due in part to the online check-in system. Our hunters are still required to turn in their hunting permit cards and report all game harvested to us…..but I know that isn’t happening in many cases. Therefore, we have to wait until the numbers are sent to us at the end of the season and compare it to what we have because we cannot query the online system at the property level. Based on what has been reported so far across the Northern Fish & Wildlife Areas, the harvest is down but how much we don’t know for sure yet.

For example, last year on Jasper-Pulaski we had 126 deer turned in on cards here at the property but I know that we actually killed at least 135 after comparing the cards against the online system.

Despite what has been reported on the Hoosier Hunting website, JP has never had a deer harvest in the high 200’s. In fact, JP has only broken 200 three times and that was in the late 80’s-early 90’s during times when FWA’s were required to allow bonus antlerless deer to be taken in the firearms season. Don’t get me wrong, the harvest will be down this year from what it was last year, I’m just trying to correct any misinformation and/or exaggerated claims.

FYI here is some historical data:

Average number of deer taken on JP:
1980-1989= 144.8
1990-1999= 145.9
2000- 2009= 154
2010-2015= 131

That the Ardizone buck that the woman killed Joe

I sat private land yesterday morning from 7:00am-12:00pm and didn't see a deer. Opening morning of ML season...and I heard one shot at 9:30am. That was the extent of it. Been hunting the same area for 25 years. Typically in that area, one will hear double digit shots opening day of ML.

Be interesting to see how our late seasons pan out statewide.

Ditto to Pav's report.....very slow. We heard 1 shot in AM, 2 in PM with a bunch of public ground nearby. Did see 3 road killed deer and 2 bald eagles up by Patoka. Heading out again. Good luck all

This has been my worse deer season in many years. Ive yet to see a buck bigger than a fork horn and he was barely a forky. Ive been seeing does in groups of 3-4 with no bucks in tow. The two biggest bucks on my game cams both got shot first weekend by the new neighbors and they are shooting everything that jumps the fence. I could have shot deer most every day of the season but Im not doe hunting. Got enough doe killing neighbors sitting on my fence line. I just hope the pibalds make through this season......the only word that comes to mind that would explain my whole hunting season is, "frustrating". h.h.

HH I also have not seen a big deer all year. I passed an ok 9pt opening day of bow. Dad missed that same deer in gun. Was seein a lot of does and fawns and only have seen 4 different bucks all year

JP was the same as what Pav said... sat from before light to noon...heard 2 shots ...However, I did see a decent buck, an 8 pt about 120-125" or so, messed around behind me at 50 yds for about 5 minutes... I hope he makes it to next season, all I'm after is a 100lb Doe to close out my archery tags...had two small ones by me Fri. afternoon....I let them walk, may have went 60 and 80lbs each, I wont kill a Doe that small.....was told at the check station only around 30 bucks killed during gun season....Ive only seen 5 bucks all season, counting the one Sat. I;m used to seeing twice to 3 times that on private...killed one of those 5, the 190lb big 8pt back the last of Oct. ..... I may have to re-estimate and lower my predictions to this years total kill numbers for the state....lol... I was saying 123-124K...I wonder if it will even make that ??

BTW, the first true snow of the season is hitting now, 1-3 inches up here...and I'm stuck at work ... SMH ...

Why in the world would you want to shoot any mature Doe or any doe in this area if the Deer numbers are truly down as you have posted them to be ?

Your either part of the problem or part of the solution...you cant or shouldn't be both!

Let guess.... It OK because your using a Bow... SMH

You beat me to it Brew... I was thinking the same thing when I was reading it...

Reminds of a guy I work with... Last year he was boasting that he and his family killed something like 8 deer in the woods they hunt and couple of weeks ago he was ranting to me that they only killed 3 this year...

You can't fix stupid!...

Think about it people, for every Doe killed that is potentially 2-4 deer lost the next year and so forth...

Yea, I'm done for the year, I'll start chasing bunnies....

Throback:

That Ardizone deer was killed in Jefferson county not Switzerland. No big deer on either of our properties this year......

I've had more, and bigger, bucks on camera in my woods this year than ever. And have seen more does than the past ten years probably. Looking up in my area. Still can't get one tagged though lol

Just got this email today from James at the DNR.

"I will warn you that since online check in started, a variety of Fish and Wildlife areas have noticed a decline in people reporting deer harvested to the Fish and Wildlife areas despite harvesting them on properties.

Having said that, Jasper Pulaski has harvested 35 deer during archery and 30 deer during firearms. These are the latest figures and I am sure you are aware that we do not allow bonus antlerless licenses on our Fish and Wildlife areas."

There is no way to know what the number of those not turning in a card when they kill a deer on any F&W property is...it is probably a low number.. during the 2015 gun season they had 55 deer reported killed on the place, 51 with bow and 20 during late arch/ML and had the online check in then.. and the year before that too, and before that also.... the reported gun kill this year is very similar to 2014 where 34 were reported....then again STATE wide, I'm sure there are deer killed and not checked in at all too, but there is no way to know what that number is...but I would guess the states bean counters could make a guess... on the F&W properties, a look also needs to be made at the total number of hunter days and should be compared to previous years, a small decrease may not equate to a lower kill, but a larger number might... for the last few seasons these number are close...and in actuality the recent years are higher hunter days... dont know what this seasons results are yet....

Friday after first weekend of ML 2015: 111,917

Today:108,668

A 3% year-over-year decline.

With rifles versus without rifles. Both years with early firearms openers and fantastic weather throughout the 16 day seasons.

Don't forget, we killed over 136,000 deer the 1st year of Prop#2. If this year ends up in the 120,000 range, we will be averaging roughly a 3% year-over-year decline over the past four seasons.
No way of knowing how much, but it is a safe bet this year's decline would have been even greater without rifles in the mix.

I'm curious just how far the numbers have to fall before the masses say ENOUGH! I'm also concerned we're going to learn the answer to that question sooner than later. Said it before and I'll say it again....I hope I am wrong about that.

Sorry, double post

Deer Harvest the last Seven years...

While I know many don't agree with it (or like it), the DNR has instituted herd reduction and if it's working the numbers should be dropping.

The question(s) I've had about herd reduction are likely similar to those that others might have.

Does the DNR have a target harvest number that we should be roughly averaging to have met the goals of herd reduction?

Is the harvest of 120-125,000 deer that we've been averaging over the last few years that number?

Close to that number?

Or is this more about county numbers rather than overall numbers?

The amount killed shows what was taken-what worries me is how few are left.If there are 12 cans of pop in the fridge and you take out two(what you can use),there are 10 left.Next time there are 3 cans and you take out the 2 you can use there is only 1 left.Your "harvest" was the same,but it doesn't mean the "population" was the same.

What about Does having offspring every year?
Wouldn't that replenish to some degree ?

Your "can" theory only looks at the negatives!

If the harvest numbers continue to level out and the majority of county harvest numbers do the same, then @ some point one would have to assume that the herd numbers are also fairly steady.

If the bottom drops out of the harvest @ some point, then I would agree with your premise. But to this point that hasn't happened.

-Only the live does have offspring-kill 3 does= 9 less deer in one year.

What about the ones that don't get shot?
looks like that might just be a addition!

Sorta like adding more "cans" to the fridge

Those that are not killed certainly do add-it's just that the more you kill,the less"can stockers" you have each year.

As long as people insist on killing a BIG ole Doe ,,The population will drop .It takes a fawn on average 3 years to be able to raise twins ,So the way I look at it you get December Doe Fawns And button bucks to eat ( there pretty good sized now) your only taking excess and And population never Drops by leaving the BIG ole Does alone you will have 2 more next December

If the can anology really made sense, you'd have no cans left eventually.....we've had a steady harvest of over 120,000 deer for many years. So apparently the herd isn't being wiped out as some would claim. Your theory proves this.

Maybe we started with a case of cans and now we're down to seven or five cans left. That's the problem, we don't really know where we started and we don't know how many we have left. All we know is it appears to many thirsty hunters that the fridge is looking emptier every year.

Well said!

This is what worries me.As I understand there was once thought to be an endless supply of bison.I guess by your anology there is,as there are still some left.

We are in Zero danger of wiping out the deer herd in Indiana. Guys are seeing fewer deer than in the past. Harvest seems to be down slightly. Sky is not falling

Want to help the deer herd this year? Skip the rest of deer season (particularly the extra antlerless season) and go kill every coyote you can by any legal means

Done and done!

Here is some data since 2000. Total harvests are actually still trending "up" since 2000, and pretty much flat since 2004. To me, the data looks like the herd is pretty stable.

The biggest problem is the difference from North to South. In Harrison County we continue to be the number one county in the state and the other areas around here have bounced back. The Northern half is struggling with access and loss of habitat due to farming practice changes.

great point. One size fits all (counties) management mentality is not what we need..

Isn't that why each county has its own quota number? What kind of system would you like to see in place of the quota system?

I've looked @ several northern county harvest numbers and while I'm sure there are some counties that are down, the numbers in the vast majority that I've looked @ seem to be more in line with the harvest data from several years ago.

Wasn't that the point of herd reduction?

When you consider other factors such as habitat loss and lack of access what would hunters expect the IDNR, landowners and other hunters to do?

Kind of what I was wondering too.

Even if you made every county in the Northern half of the state a zero on the bonus antlerless quota system residents in any county in the state can still harvest 3 antlerless and one antlered deer a year, just by purchasing a bow tag, crossbow tag, firearms tag and muzzleloader tag.

So what's the solution? Make certain counties a "no antlerless harvest" zone? Rework the license structure to limit licences to one antlered and one antlerless deer for the Northern half of the state?

IMO, we've had way too many rule changes to justify a harvest trend as valid data.

There are just too many variables to consider. For instance, there was a dip in the harvest in 2014 followed by a jump in 2015. Couldn't have had much worse weather during the 2014 firearms season....and couldn't have had much better weather during the same time frame in 2015.

It is what it is....

If you look @ the harvest reports from 2012-2015, the percentage of the total harvest attributed to the general firearms season has held pretty steady (with an average of 55% of total yearly harvest) regardless of weather.

2009 top ten:
The counties with the highest harvests were
Steuben, Kosciusko, Switzerland, Noble, Franklin, Dearborn, Marshall, Parke, Harrison, and Washington.

2015 top ten:
The ten counties with the greatest harvests were, in descending order, Harrison, Washington, Franklin, Switzerland, Noble, Dearborn, Steuben, Lawrence, Parke, and Crawford.

2009 5 of top 10 were north now 3 of top 10 are north.

During that time Kosciusko went from 3652 deer harvested to 2224.

My thoughts exactly. More tags, added weaponry, that should lead to larger harvest.

Indiana dude My thoughts exactly. More tags, added weaponry, that should lead to larger harvest.


What happened when new "weaponry" was added is that the harvest shifted from one piece of equipment to another.

For example...The first number (listed by equipment type) is the percentage of total harvest from 2011 for each type of equipment used. The second number (listed by equipment type) is the percentage of total harvest from 2015 for each type of equipment used.



Bows 21% 16%
Shotgun 42% 35%
ML 26% 20%
handgun 1% 1%
Rifle 9% 19%
x-bow 1% 10%

BTW, the total harvest from 2011 was 129,000 and from 2015 124,000.

Yes I get that. I'm just saying let's see how the harvest numbers play out over the next few years with the added equipment since that's about all they can add. Unless rpg's become legal next year.

indianadude Yes I get that. I'm just saying let's see how the harvest numbers play out over the next few years with the added equipment since that's about all they can add. Unless rpg's become legal next year.

A couple of points...

1. Hprs are on a 5 season trial. Who knows if they will be allowed after that.

2. If past history is any indication, what will likely happen is that hprs (like pcrs) will gain usage by some but hardly all. Then when you break down the harvest by equipment type, the percentages will be further diluted due to additional choices but harvest numbers likely won't change dramatically.

Thanks for the discussion.

I am all in with RPG's. The "fun factor" alone is worth the price.

No more worries about shot angle!!

People are dropping their bows to use the more longer range and easier to use crossbows..... all to enable an easier harvest.

People are dropping their shotguns, pcrs, pistols and Muzzy's to use the longer range HPRs......... all to enable an easier harvest.


All of these changes have been made for weapons.......AND..... more liberal harvest quotas over the last 5 years.

The amount of deer available is dropping dramatically each year (planned yes, but also masked) ...... but the ease of harvest ability has increased due to more long range weapons/easier to use weapons/more liberal tags (which has increased harvest to those that otherwise would have taken home the "donut hole")..... which "MASKS" the real data of a drastically reduced herd...... and those that just look at "the numbers" don't want to talk about "the mask" as it makes everything appear "OK". LOL!!!!! Those are the same people that took the authority away from our IDNR with Prop #2....... but don't want to look responsible.

What a messed up bunch that is. Geeeesh!!!

No worries though.......... as the barrel gets emptier, and the IDNR does not have the "quantity card" to play anymore to get hunters to buy tags.......... the only thing left will be the "quality card" to keep the hunters they need to keep buying tags.

We are headed straight to a shorter gun season. And if we don't....... hunters will continue to opt for more out of state hunts where 30+ days of gun use to harvest deer, and/or gun hunting during the middle of the rut does NOT exist..... or simply opt out of deer hunting altogether (which we are already seeing)....... or simply loses his place to hunt as he gets leased out of property to some other guy that is fed up with current Indiana regs (which we are already seeing more of too)

IDNR wants revenue to stay at home........ they have THEEE card they just haven't played................ Yet.

Just wait till next year, Charlie Brown. You'll see! Next year at this same time, I'll find a pumpkin patch that is *real* sincere and I'll sit in that pumpkin patch until the Great Pumpkin appears....

My "truth serum" must drive you just friggin' nuts........ LOL!!!!

Nostrafrickindamus he is.

+1...

"Truth Serum" huh....

Is it....pumpkin flavored?

Funny. I've had more deer in my woods this year than the past ten. Haven't seen ANYONE carrying a crossbow around here. Nor a hpr.

Sky still up in my county.

Tuesday after first weekend of ML 2015 (12/15/15): 113,815

Today (12/13/16): 111,039

A 2.4% year-over-year decline.

If we use a 5 year rolling average to smooth out the bumps, the trendline is actually a bit positive although I would speculate that is not correct. 2016 harvest is projected to be a 2.4% decline from 2015.

Well Dave, I haven’t seen a SINGLE deer since the opening day of gun season. My normal practice is to stay out in gun season, and give our place up as sanctuary for the deer until I see one I want to go after. In recent years there are always 15-20 deer that yard up on our place from the pressure. (That number was once 50-60) Nothing has changed, and actually we have made it better for the deer. It has always been that way. But, I don’t have to hunt to know what’s there. Where I’m at, I can see deer whether I’m in one of my stands or not. And I’m not talking just on our farm. I’m talking the two square mile block that I have access to, and I’m on or around every single day working on the farm! In setting coyote snares, and glassing almost every evening, I have seen exactly ZERO! Its just not me, it the neighbors, friends, and my trail cameras that back up what I’m not seeing. You know its bad when several local farmers ask….”Where’s the deer”! It’s not about the weapons, can’t do anything about that anyway. But I KNOW for a fact there were several people hunting and killed deer with HPR’s in the neighborhood, and just as many hunt with crossbows as do compounds now. Want me to take a picture next time a buggy goes down the road with a couple of crossbows strapped to the top?? After having a lengthy conversation with the local biologist, I initially disagreed with him. I was saying get rid of the one bonus permit we have in the county. He said it wouldn’t do any good. When you have more people hunting for deer, than there are deer, it just doesn’t matter. After thinking about that all night, he is right. We can already kill more does than what’s needed without the bonus permit. As you always say, “a dead deer is dead no matter what weapon killed it”. Well, that’s true, but with all that now, what it has done is greatly sped up the process eliminating most of them! So, before you, or anybody else for that matter, snidely spouts off about the “sky is not falling” crap, what you need to do look outside your 20 acre deer paradise or whatever it is, and see what’s going on elsewhere. Because here, the sky isn’t falling, it’s SLAMMED to the ground!!!! State wide, I’m sure we’re good, I have no worries about the deer population. However, I’ve been hunting this area for 30+ years. I know what the hunting used to be like, and what its capable of being. Not any more…………..

Yaz A couple of questions....

Based on your location listed I assume you are talking about Decatur County?

If what your local biologist is saying is true about the numbers of people versus deer, what would you like to see happen?

In addition to the above, are there a lot of depredation permits being issued? Lots of poaching going on? Was there an EHD outbreak recently?

I live in Decatur County, a short distance from the farm that is located in Southern Rush County. Average annual harvest is +/- 300 yr. in Rush County. There has been very few, to no depredation permits issued. I know, the Biologist is my Cousin who issues them. He actually HATES to issue them. No wild disease whatsoever, and never has been. Some EHD in the two deer farms, that are not near where our place is at.. I'd say poaching in the literal sense isn't near what it is in higher deer density areas. Not enough deer to make it worthwhile I guess! Although is does happen. What I don't know is how many of those deer around there actually get checked in. I have my suspicions.

I personally know out of 6 local families, there are 21 that hunt that section. Unless some others have gotten old enough, thats what I last remember. But thats not all. There are another 1/2 dozen guys, and local land owners that hunt or allow others to hunt in that section also.

In that block I know there were 9 does/yearlings, and the same amount of various, but mostly yearling bucks. I know for a fact all 9 does have been eliminated. I did pull a card that had been soaking for 3 weeks tonight, and had one BB, and yearling 8 pointer.

Most of the county is not very suitable deer habitat, hence the low harvest numbers. Where we are located is very good habitat. It actually could be the very best the county has to offer. I have done my part, and not killed does for 15 years, and only take a buck every 3 or 4 years. Not because I don't want to, because I'm not one to preach one thing and do another. See how thats worked out for me though…. :rolleyes:

What do I want to see done……nobody wants to hear it, and it would't happen anyway. But it WOULD be the only possible way to slow it down in this area. So, other than the "feel good" rant, its all really pointless. With the exception to inform the ones one here that really DON'T know what its like outside their little realms, preaching to ME that the "sky isn't falling". BTW- Thanks for asking jjas. Seriously.

Yaz BTW- Thanks for asking jjas. Seriously.


Sure, I was just curious.

I live in east central IN, Wayne county. We have an 80 acre farm. 40 acres of woods and cover 36 tillable. We do NOT have the deer around here like we did even 5 yrs ago.

I also am a mail carrier and have access to several hundred acres of prime hunting ground in the county. The deer are sparse! I speak to my customers on a regular basis and they are not seeing deer either.

You hit the nail on the head Yaz it's not the guy killing the 8 bonus or whatever it's the 30 killing the 2 one archery and one Mzl Lowering the bonus does nothing to the annual harvest NOTHING !'

I wish we had more recent data but according to the 2010 Deer Hunter Survey :

43.5% of hunters killed 0 deer
30.0% killed 1 deer
12.2% killed 2 deer
5.6% killed 3 deer
4.6% killed 4+
.6% killed 8+

Extrapolated out to 30 given hunters, that's 5 deer killed.

Since Rush and Wayne counties came up in the discussion, I took the time to look @ the harvest data for the seasons 2009-2015.


For Rush County the average # of antlered deer harvested was 171. The high was 193 in 2014.

The average # of antlerless deer harvested was 190. The high was 217 in 2014.

The average # of deer harvested was 369. The highest was 410 in 2014.

This season the allotted bonus antlerless permits available was 1 per hunter.


For Wayne County the average # of antlered deer harvested was 458. The high was 508 in 2010.

The average # of antlerless deer harvested was 652. The high was 700 in 2012.

The average # of deer harvested was 1111. The highest was 1143 in 2010.

This season the allotted bonus antlerless permits available was 3 per hunter.

So for that year, there were 134004 deer killed. That means that the hunters that killed 4 or more deer accounted for more than 31,000 of the deer killed.

If those hunters were restricted to only killing 3 deer, nearly 13,000 deer would not have been killed.

That's 4.6% of licence sold I believe ,not deer harvested

Here's the table straight from the survey...specifically says "Deer Harvest Per Hunter" and then breaks it down per season and total.

You and I both know to keep the data skewed and harvest numbers up one of three options will be played.

Sadly I can only think of two; what am I missing?
1.) early weekend ML season
2.) earn a buck
3.) ?

3.) Exploding broadheads. Duh!

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/index/bow-mag-38-357-magnum-arrowhead-6-pk?a=1692605

If you draw water from a well at a rate of 20 gallons/day, but that well is only capable of replenishing 15/gallons per day....you will eventually run the well dry.

If you have no means of monitoring the water level, you won't even know the well is going dry until it is too late.

Amen!

Now some of you guys know how I feel. I know years back some thought I was a big cry baby because I would hunt days on end a few hundred hours a year and would see less deer in that time than some seen in 1 day. It is frustrating to hardly ever see any deer. Now you know where I am coming from. The public land I hunt gets hammered so hard that the deer left are sooo skittish they won't move until after dark. More and more people are getting pushed to public land because of leasing and not allowing others to hunt their land anymore. People are more possessive about their land then years back and if they have land they can make a few bucks leasing it. And then this year we went from a 3 to a 4 county with the extra late antler less season. Why???

I didn't think you were being a crybaby but a hypocrite and I called you out on that... Like Brew told Jeff Valovich earlier in this thread, "Your either part of the problem or part of the solution...you cant or shouldn't be both!"

You go out shoot two Does and then proceed to tell everyone not to shoot Does the following year like it was going to make some impact on your hunting area (which it wouldn't)... What makes the impact in your area is you and your neighbors playing the brown and down game which equating to what Pav said about the well running dry is he is right, IT WILL RUN DRY, just like you will run out of deer... And if and when you do, it will take many years to recover...

For the most part, MOST families and can get by on a deer or two a year... But if you continue to go out and shoot deer after that then you are pretty much going out just to shoot deer... I work with a guy who boasted about he and his family killing 8 deer last year and only getting three this year (last I heard) and he was griping to me about it... He blamed it on everything but himself and his family for the slaughter they did last year... They are part of the problem, but are too darn stupid to see it...


But I the thing that aggravated me the most about that exchange is the fact you dragged your daughter into the discussion which was totally uncalled for... You shot those two Does because you wanted to and it had NOTHING to do with your daughter...

and I'm done for the year like I stated .... I tore up my 2nd archery tag ...... only the 8 pt this year...no Does...

Yes we know. I was simply using Brew's quote...

its time to kill some 'yotes and bunnies.... the best thing for this state would be for hunters to boycott and not use any bonus tags some have left or not to buy any more for that darn late "kill all the Does you can" gun season... I wish they'd put all the counties a 3 or less bonus so that season isnt viable, or do away with it for good and put a state wide limit on a hunter on how many deer one person can kill, one Buck/two Does (or even just one Doe) IMO ;0) .... just back off the Does darn it !!

While I don't want to get in the middle of two people's discussion, I have to say that Bryan78's post about hypocrisy rings true in a general sense.

I can't tell you how many posts I've read about "save the does" and then see where some of the very same people have posted pics of dead does or brag about filling their freezer with does. It reminds me of when people constantly complain about the start date and length of the firearms season in their "I hate gun season" posts and then post hero pics of a buck they killed with their favorite firearm during the very season they've been b*tching about for years....

IMO, the whole "do as I say, not as I do" thing tends to undermine these folks credibility....

That would be the best thing state could do but unless you set it up that you could not kill more than one Doe per county than even this would not have that much impact...

The fix ... 2 deer per hunter state wide, only one of which can be a buck. Buy your two deer tags and a MANDATORY hunting license. Hunt your deer during the seasons that are open using legal weapons. End this madness of bonus antlerless or a special antlerless season or weapon specific tags. Then let the hunter decide if he wants to limit his hunting to one deer as his area herd suggests or if he feels he can take two. This nonsense of taking 3 or more deer has to stop though.

But that plan cuts into State revenue and this is what our system here in Indiana is really all about ... money. It never really has been about the deer or the health of the herd. It has always been about the hunter's wallet.

Shortening and pushing back gun season would help too ... but that is a whole different debate.

Deer herd is fine every farm that I hunt. The bag limit has been discussed before and just because I can kill 8 in one county doesn't mean I do. My family kills what we can use for the year and that's it. I know a lot of deer hunters and not one of them reach their bag limit. I'm sure if you average the number of deer taken vs the number of hunters it would be below 2 per person.

So let me get this straight...........

Someone that does not like Indiana's gun season LENGTH, or TIMING of it ONLY....Must mean they hate guns ......and /or is hypocrite if they shoot a deer with a gun in Indiana?

What????

Does this mean that those that wish archery seasons dates were different.......hate bows and are a hypocrite if they take a deer with a bow?

Really?????

Or do you mean that people that don't like the hunting regs you do....... are seen as hypocrites/problems by you

In 2015, almost 162,000 licenses were sold (not including youth - 195,000 including youth). With 123,664 deer killed, less than 1 deer is killed per license sold. According to the 2010 deer hunter survey, 73.5% of hunters kill 0 or 1 deer.

Also keep in mind that 19% (23,255 deer) of deer were killed by lifetime license holders which are not included in the licenses sold number.

[2015 Deer Harvest Summary - p. 15 - http://www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/files/fw-2015-Deer-Harvest-Report.pdf)

Nowhere in my post did I say anything about someone hating guns.

You apparently saw an example of "Dew as I say, not as I Dew"...and didn't care for it.

I was just asking...... and you cleared that up after editing your response post to me about 4-5 times... LOL!!

I know....... I know........ that knot in your tail is kinda obvious...... takes awhile to repeatedly edit your post/play on words till you think it looks believable.... at least to you. LOL!!

Pumkin' Flavored Truth Serum..... tastes wonderful doesn't it....

I think the simple solution would be for all the people that gripe about Indiana's deer regulations to sit out a few seasons and see if the deer herd grows to the numbers they think it should be. I think it's funny that people gripe about low numbers of deer but still hunt. The truth is the deer herd is fine. Just because a few people struggle to kill or even see deer doesn't mean the deer aren't there.

How would you limit Urban areas and draw hunts for state wide limits?

Dew,

I'm finished with your foolishness. You were gone from this forum for months and things were peaceful.

Now the garbage has started again, but I'm not going to waste any more of my time on a hypocrite like you...

All for it. Killed one in gun season and my son killed one in youth season. Plenty of meat for the family.

Gun season is way to long now. Make it a couple weeks tops. 3-4 days (Like Ohio and Illinois) would be better. Start it the end of November...

API, why dont you tell everyone here how its done ?? SMH ...

Yep...... You and Trapperdave just were running around in here spewing "the usual"...... and nobody was calling you out on it. "Peaceful" for you....doesn't mean it was "Peaceful" for others. All the sudden it becomes "Garbage" when you don't like being pinned to the carpet on your own twisted logic..... selfish views...... and giving others insight into what you don't want them to realize. All of the sudden...... "hypocrite/Charlie Brown/Great Pumkin/ and "have a good evening, I'm outta here" is all you have left to say.

You'll be back........ you can't help yourself.

Bottom line......... this thread is now 10 pages long not because people are happy with what you stand for and try to justify..... More weapons, More Liberal Tags, 30+ Days of Gun Season with no end in sight.

Lovely little bed you have to yourself and a few of your "Mini-Me's" still for a little while jjas.....

I agree completely. But not only will that not happen, some of these people are more than happy to talk out of both sides of their mouths and b*tch and moan about season lengths and dates, yet they are more than happy to take advantage of those seasons, if it means killing a buck they can post hero pics of, so as to try and feed their giant egos.

I find them to be hypocrites and that's all they will ever be....

How would you limit Urban areas and draw hunts for state wide limits? [/QUOTE]

Special draw hunts like State Park or other places I would make no different than how they are now. These are properties that are unique given there lack of regular hunting pressure. So IDNR and the property managers should make the call on what type of limits for each draw in a given year.

As to Urban ... IMO it is a joke the way it is now. Make it fall just the same as the rest of the state unless a state biologist saw a need for an emergency rule change for a target area.

Emergency rules could always be used if a specific area needed additional herd control.

It really doesn't have to be complicated.

Jeff, I believe I already did. My family harvested what we can use and called it a season. The people that struggle to kill or see deer need to quit killing deer until the herd gets to the numbers they think it should be. There will never be a time when all hunters are satisfied. I've had seasons that I struggled but continued to hunt and eventually it all came together. I've had seasons where the freezer was full by the end of October. If it weren't for the options that Indiana allows there are times I wouldn't have filled the freezer. I meat hunt first antler hunt second.

I had cameras out most of the season and got pics of a lot of does and small bucks. Never got a pic of any good bucks however a 165 inch deer and my sons 148 inch 8 pointer was killed on this farm which goes back to the other point I made. Just because you don't see deer doesn't mean they aren't there.

Yeah it does, it's the Indiana way of doing things...

Special draw hunts like State Park or other places I would make no different than how they are now. These are properties that are unique given there lack of regular hunting pressure. So IDNR and the property managers should make the call on what type of limits for each draw in a given year.

As to Urban ... IMO it is a joke the way it is now. Make it fall just the same as the rest of the state unless a state biologist saw a need for an emergency rule change for a target area.

Emergency rules could always be used if a specific area needed additional herd control.

It really doesn't have to be complicated. [/b][/QUOTE]


If the state did something along the lines you are proposing, how would you make up the revenue lost?

If the state did something along the lines you are proposing, how would you make up the revenue lost? [/b][/QUOTE]

Up non-resident fees and poaching fines. Need to do that anyway.

DEC has a point. I could go with that.

bean Perhaps I'm wrong, but I can't imagine that being anywhere near enough to offset the revenue loss.

I'd love to see some numbers on the subject.

Don't worry someone will come up with a Idea to shoot 2 Bucks to gain loss money and save does!

Well……I guess If me griping about the lack of deer, not killing a single doe in the last 15 years (when i seen it coming) and only taking a buck every three to four years as I need meat, makes me a hypocrite, then so be it. But I'm **** sure not going to sit out a "few seasons" and continue to watch it decline from the couch…..its going to decline whether I'm hunting or not, because I have ZERO impact on our local herd with the way I hunt.

Yaz,

I certainly wasn't talking about you. We discussed your situation the other day.

I'm talking about people who complain constantly about the pressure on the herd (and certain seasons/equipment) yet turn around and hunt those seasons, post pics of their booty and then go back to complaining about the pressure on the herd.

this is the first season in around 30 seasons that I have not BOWhunted into December...a point was made earlier, and yes, I agree with what was said...I saved a Doe ('prolly..lol) by not filling my last archery tag and tearing it up ....how many on here with bonus tags are waiting for the "Kill all the Does" gun season and are willing to do that ?? stop now, tear up your bonus tags or dont try for that last Doe/deer this season ?? .. In the last 4 seasons, Ive only killed one Doe and that was in 2014 down at Wabash ... 3 of of the last seasons(including this) have been only 1 buck per those seasons(no Does) ...period ... this is what I can remember off the top of my head, I'll go back and check my logs..

I agree with not setting on the couch... I also don't belive folks should be pushed out of hunting because they can't get time to only hunt Few days or less a year! Hunting shouldn't have to be a Rush...IMO.

+1....

That is the problem. I don't know you could ever get it to match the current revenue, but I could be wrong. Like others said ... the start is to jack up the price for out of state hunters. We all know how insanely cheap we are relative to surrounding states.

Also, make deer hunters actually buy a hunting license. I know a lot of us have or buy a general hunting license, but there are a lot of deer hunt only guys that have no need to buy a hunting license because the state only requires them to buy deer tags. Most other states you also have to buy a hunting license in addition to your deer tags.

Another thing that they could do is actually sell the tags for draw type hunts like the State Parks and other areas. They could charge 1/2 price or something, since now they charge nothing. Same with an emergency rule hunt. Charge something for the tags in that zone, again, maybe 1/2 price of normal.

Again, I am of the opinion that our State cares more about the dollars than the deer or the deer hunters. So, this is all wishful thinking on my part when it comes to changing the overall system. I could be all wet on it and maybe a bean counter could make the numbers work.

I am not saying that I have the absolute answer, but I feel that it would be a start in the right direction from a licensing standpoint. I just know what we have now it not working and I don't think it has anything to do with weapons options. Again, there are all kinds of season structure issues which are hot topics that I think would make huge improvements to the overall herd as well ... but that is for another debate.

It's obviously tough to keep revenues up, deer numbers in check and all hunters happy.

Throw in the fact that deer hunting has many different definitions to hunters as well and it's no wonder that we seem to spend more time fussing and fighting than reaching any real level of consensus.

That's why I've said for years, that I don't envy the folks that work @ the DNR.

Great points... This is something I could very easily support...

Based on 2015 licenses sold as indicated in the 2015 Harvest Report - p. 13 , if we doubled the price of NR deer tags, removed the bundle, removed the bonus antlerless, and sold 2 tags to every hunter that bought the bundle we would have a net of $433,000. Forgive the screwy format.

NR Doubled 16440 $125.00 $2,055,000.00
Bonus Antlerless Removed 21088 $24.00 -$506,112.00
Bundle Removed 65604 $65.00 -$4,264,260.00
2 Tags/Hunter 65604 $48.00 $3,148,992.00
Net change $433,620.00

p.s. These are just back-of-the-napkin numbers. Much more analysis of the policy implications is needed. But it seems feasible. If someone cares a whole awful lot, they should do some real evaluation of the potential impacts, prepare a petition for the NRC, and work towards the change.

I will say that until the harvest numbers, crop damage complaints, and deer-vehicle collisions drop by at least 25%, there will be very little political motivation to get this done. But if you believe the trajectory is drastically downward, start now and in a few years, you might be able to get something done.

But in the immortal words of the Lorax...

You really think the same amount of out state tags will sell if you double them?

no

Not only double.......but TRIPLE or more if the gun season is shortened and moved out of the rut. QUALITY deer drives state tags up in interest....... not shrinking QUANTITY, and 30+ days of gun.

But then all those smiling resident and non-resident deer hunters posing with does, little bucks, medium bucks and big bucks would be called "Hypocrites" by jjas...... just for getting a change in hunting that jjas doesn't like........ but all the while still leaves intact the ability to shoot does, dinks and still use HPR's and Crossbows.

So we got 2 no's and 1 yes so far...

BTW.... John didn't say anything about season changes!

You were called a hypocrite because you are a hypocrite....

You've b*tched about the firearms season for years complaining about how it should be shortened and moved. But yet, this gun season on the last Saturday of the third weekend, your principles apparently took the day off as you happily went out and took advantage of the very thing you have roasted people on this site for wanting to keep in place over and over again.

So yes...that makes you a hypocrite in my eyes.

It's no different than when you admitted to using a "real time" camera to help you kill that buck a couple of years ago and then in later posts claiming that you don't support their use.

You are nothing but a hypocrite...on a lot of different levels....and you know that.

A non-resident tag in Iowa is is $551 plus about three years worth of preference points at $50 a pop. They have people lined up to buy them at that price, I'm one of them. However I believe they have a much better mgt plan. But yeah if the right mgt is applied you could double or triple nr tag prices and not lose revenue IMO. But on the current system... no I don't think the same # would be bought but then again anything over half as many would produce revenue.

Lic. Sales last 5 years

You are the REAL deal when it comes to problems here..... and you LOATHE that I make it clear to others just what your fiber is......

As in your "Hypocrite" logic above........ you didn't ask how many days I gun hunted did you. You would be SHOCKED to learn that it was just 3 days I had this year to hunt since I got married and had little vacation time. I didn't need 30+ days to hunt the deer I was after with a gun....... I needed 3. And if our Indiana Gun/Muzzy season was only 9,10, or 12 days....and placed somewhere else on the calendar... I still would have only needed 3 vacation days and a weekend to get it done. And that PIZZZZES you off that there are people that prove YEAR AFTER YEAR you don't need 30+ days to hunt a buck with a gun. :p So....... you slither around in here and call them "hypocrites" and try to make themselves out to be something that they are not........ you've been doing that tactic for years to others in here and on other forums..... and you won't stop...... and neither will I.


As for the trail caming with "real time" trail cams......... Again, you fling a false statement up on the wall like Zhit hoping some will stick. I hunt with ICO's and Retired ICO's, and have others from the county Prosecutors office and Sheriff Office in my hunting group....... NONE of us have EVER used a real time trail cam......EVER!! We use the Moultrie M-80's of the past and the new Moultrie 880i's GEN 2 series exclusively...... all are SD card series cams....... no "real time" cell service. You are MOST welcome to come up here to the Kos County Justice building and call me and all of us liars to our face...... and then we can all go to lunch and get to know you a bit better and determine how you got to be such an angry little man ....... and offer you some advice on how to let all of that hatred go. And..... we'd get to put a real face and real name behind your "jjas alias" since you won't come forward with that from your dark little hole in your basement as you type away on your keyboard with you empty cereal boxes, cracker crumbs and empty pop cans at your feet........LOL!!

And....... we can help you get ahold of this Hunting Sites or ANY hunting sites old archives and help you find this post which "proves" I have used real trail time cams..... that you can't seem to find, but elude to for your acidic agenda.

Keep postin' jjas........... people are reading.

Yep....

Keep dancing....and living by the "Dew as I say, not as I Dew" creed you've embraced....

BTW, no one ever intimated that "real time" cameras were illegal. They aren't, but then you know that don't you..... :rolleyes:

Yep...... those cams are not illegal at all. I'm just correcting your false claim..... and turning the light on the roach again.

So....... this means no lunch with us and getting to meet you face to face I guess??..... And here I was SO hopeful..... LOL!!

Keep dancing Dew, keep dancing....

I Don't hunt to kill ,So only needing 3days to get it done not something I do "I don't hunt to get it done " I don't want the state to Trophy Manage !! I like the seasonsjust fine other than the late antlerless gun! Stop the out of state landowners no tags needed option and raise out of state licence imo

It wouldn't break my heart to see the DNR not only raise the non-resident fees but limit the number of nr tags available as well.

There's no problem with collecting a large amount of non-resident fees, while limiting NR licenses. But they key ingredient is that you're deer hunting has to be good.

Example is Iowa, with arguably the best managed and most abundant deer herd in the USA. And the most highly-desired NR deer hunting license in the country. They offer only 6000 deer licenses per year to non-residents. The demand is much greater than the supply. They charge 551.00 total if you draw. Plus the cost, on average, of about 2 years worth of preference points per successful applicant, at 52.00 per year. For a total of 655.00 per license.

So with only 6000 licenses issued, they collect about $4 million. From non-residents only. Unlikely to work here though. It's no secret that their deer hunting is dramatically better than our's, because their hunters, in cooperation with their DNR, have chosen to make it so.

"Good/Better "... can have many meanings among a lot of different Hunter's .... IMO

That's a valid point. Ask many of Iowa and Illinois' residents that USED to be able to afford to deer hunt in their home states how much "better" they feel deer hunting is now?

Nothing to add...just wanted to show that post again in BOLD.

Probably a valid point in Illinois as that state manages for quality AND offers basically unlimited non-resident buck tags. Both outfitting and non-resident leasing is big business in Illinois.

You won't find that nearly as prevalent in Iowa. The fact NR tags are extremely limited keeps the number of outfitters in check. The fact NR's can only draw a tag every 3-4 years in most zones keeps non-resident leasing in check. Even public land deer hunting in Iowa is pretty darned good!

Anyone have input on why the non-resident sales increased last year vs falling off or staying about the same as prior years?

While your points about NR hunting in Iowa are valid, resident hunters (and I know a few) have found that leasing costs have risen so high that many resident Iowans can no longer afford to hunt private ground. I have a buddy that has lived in Iowa his entire life and he told me when he came down here to hunt last month that he just can't afford the leases any longer in Iowa.

As far as public ground goes, I would imagine that those resources will be stretched as well as more Iowa resident hunters transition from private ground to public resources.

I would say more national press about Indiana as a trophy deer hunting state and how the tags are over the counter and dirt cheap as out of state deer hunting in the midwest goes.

Coverage of the #2 all time non typical buck a couple years ago might of helped too?

I wonder if that is a carry-overed error from the mis-reporting of the non-resident harvest numbers in the original 2015 harvest report?

Remember that the Non-resident kills was originally listed as 11,034 but then an error was found and was reduced to 5,767?

Seems slightly coincidental that the difference in that error and the difference in tags sold from previous years is very close.

Maybe a small example, but I just noticed a couple weeks ago that in 2012 and 2014 I had online checked in my deer as non resident. I don't know how in the world I did that or if the system glitched.

I deer hunted Iowa just a month ago....and I believe it was my 7th trip overall. I have permission to hunt (not leasing) five different properties owned by three different landowners.

I stayed in a cabin on public ground which includes some prime deer habitat (I've actually hunted this piece of public ground). During my mid-November stay, I saw a total of two trucks in the hunter parking areas. One of those had the tailgate down and a dog box in the back...so I'm assuming bird hunter.

This is in Zone 6....one of the higher demand zones. I've previously hunted private land in Zone 5 twice on a handshake...and witnessed the same lack of public hunting. If my employer had a facility in Iowa....I'd be long gone!

Post a pic of your Iowa Buck from this year Pav.... If you don't mind.

I know a dozen guys that go hunt Iowa and though they'd all love to lease not a one of them do. That is because they are only able to draw once every four years. Doesn't make much since to lease when that is the stipulation. Plus Iowa sets an exact amount of tags that are given out. No different crowds now than from years ago. And if it ever is too high of hunter numbers all they need to do is decrease tags available. Like I said not apples to apples as IN regs aren't comparable but it is possible with the right system.

Now fellas,
Indiana may not be as good OVERALL as Iowa. But I PROMISE you, that if you OWN land and are selective or have a dandy lease you will have plenty of opportunities to kill a big buck. This is why NR Tags are up 6000. Deer hunters with money have figured out that not only are Indiana NR tags cheaper than a dozen arrows, but there is no "quota" like Iowa. You think those 6000 extra tags were guys coming across from Illinois and Ohio to hunt HNF? Uh, No. Indiana is pumping out some huge bucks and everybody knows it. We are GIVING our licenses away and creating a great amount of competition for leases with guys from other states. No quota and $155 NR tag is in my opinion the DUMBEST thing our deer managers are doing. It's the FIRST thing i would fix if I was in charge.
Is the overall herd getting better? Probably not. But if you have money to lease in several states, and you've already taken a buck in Illinois, Iowa, Kansas or maybe you didn't draw a tag in all those states this season, why not come to Indiana for $155 and enjoy a 2 week gun season? It's a no-brainer. We might be able to charge as much or more than the other states given the amount of days to hunt AND throw in the opportunity to kill a second buck and CALL it and "Urban" deer. If you aren't discussing these things around the campfire at deer camp you're falling behind fellas.

Pav,

Maybe I need to introduce my Iowa buddy to you so you can help him out..lol.

He's lived in Des Moines his whole life and over the last 10 years or so the properties he was hunting have all been leased up @ rates he says he just can't afford to pay.

He lives in the most populated place in Iowa. Of course there is going to be leasing. If he hasn't realized leases have taken over nationwide in the last 10 years he has had his head in the sand. Obviously he is going to see an increase in leasing. That said, A quick Google search will show you leases are more available and affordable in Iowa than any other Midwest state with a decent mgt plan. I've looked and leased in most of them.
But then again maybe he is one of the fellas that thanks he should get to hunt someone's place for free like a lot of people I hear griping. Go ahead and reply with it isn't free he helps put up hay for the guy or etc. That may be well and good but it doesn't cut it most of the time anymore and if it does they are lucky. Landowners have realized they have a valuable resource and should realize that value imo.

Cody,

I know he leased/hunted a couple of those places for several years. He told me the rates just got to be too high for him to pay..

That's the way it goes sometimes....

True. Probably is tough by a bigger city. I live just south of Indy but the closest place I hunt is 1.5 hrs away, just too much competition for the little amount of available ground. It is frustrating at times.

What's expensive ?? I'm hearing Of land going for 20$ an acre to 30$ an acre here ??

saw one 40 acre spot which used to be PUBLIC LAND for over 30 yrs lease for $40/acre!!!

Depends on the property for me. A great 20-50 acre price would bring a lot more per acre than a larger acreage made up of wide open farm ground. Better off deciding how much you are comfortable with spending and then looking at differing property. Too many people get hung up on acreage size as the key factor and IMO it is more about location, location, location.

Last day of ML 2015: 116,560

Today: 113,465

-3,095 (-2.7%)

Cody, you're right about Location, but if it's too small...you'll stink it up hunting it too much or have to stay out of it till the rut is in full swing. That stinks because most people don't wanna pay that much money to only hunt a few days.

If it was the "right" 40 acres, $1600/year is an absolute bargain.

all spoil bank hills, mostly covered in pines, and no real food for the deer within a mile or so. I This was not the "right" 40. Just shows the lease prices these leasing dealers are creating for even less than prime hunting habitat.

Leasing does not seem to be a good long term option for me. Purchasing property is the route we are going to go. The question then becomes "Where?" and increasingly IN is looking less appealing. IL is not far from me though

....

I'm struggling with the own versus lease dilemma. Would love to own property, but that limits the total acreage. (i.e. would have to find the "right" 40 acres per say). A guy can lease ALOT of acres for much less $$$ than the cost of a mortgage, taxes, insurance, etc..Always a chance somebody else leases it out from under you though.

There are a few properties in Indiana that I would probably jump on if one came up for sale...but only because Indiana deer regulations have limited affect in those areas due to adjacent large tracts which are intensely managed.
I have zero interest buying much of the land Indiana has to offer simply due to piss poor statewide deer management.

I'm a bowhunter and I like to turkey hunt....so Ohio offers alot of appeal. For the most part, they don't bring in the deer guns until after Thanksgiving, over the counter tags for deer and turkey, and a two spring bird limit. That's a difficult combination to beat!

I'm sure you've looked Paul but if not land in Kentucky comes at a real bargain of a price. However again you are dealing with similar deer regulations to Indiana.

The right property pays for itself and pays its own taxes.

Buy half wooded, half tillable and rent out the tillable.

Thanks Cody. Yes, I've looked at Kentucky...but their rifle season opens even earlier than our firearms season....making it much less attractive for bowhunting.

I agree 100% Dave. Would love to have a 50/50 property, but tillable acreage has gone completely though the roof price wise.

Have noticed land prices tend to be a bit more reasonable if there is a nice home on the property. The idea of buying such a property and selling off the home and a couple acres has crossed my mind.

The only thing I'm sure of at this point....is that I'm 100% firmly entrenched... on the fence.

Cody is correct.......... you can buy the "best habitat" but you better research your neighbors before the purchase. You can have the best piece of dirt....... but your neighbors will influence what happens more than you on a 300"ish" acre parcel or less. And then if you find these "sa-weet" neighbors........just hope they don't sell or die in your lifetime.

Ohio land is the good deal right now. Great regs to grow any type of deer you want to hunt (does, dinks and trophies) ALL hunters get the experience they want...... Indiana however is still victim to "quantity tag", "quantity weapon" and "quantity gun days" voices....... which tends to yield a better experience for the "quantity/weapon" hungry crowd. That's all fine and dandy till the quantity dries up.....and weapons are maxed....... Then the bottom falls out for all, which is where we are now and heading towards deeper each year.

The ICO's I have discussed this with agree....... the targets of the "quantity/weapons" crowd is now the borders of those that have taken care of their properties. These thugs just shift focus on "where to tear it up next"......and make NO investment into their own property they have/had. This crowd lives for the day/moment they are in........ to heck with anything related to "long term investment".

..........which is why they scream to protect 30+ days to gun hunt here in Indiana, longer range weapons, and more days to hunt the "beloved buck"/or win the local/family/friend group "most does shot" contest which their little egos just HAVE to have.

Well is running dry........ those type are getting leased out and run out....... and they are BITTER about seeing something ruined THEY had a BIG hand in....... but don't see it that way. Their "life portfolio" looks the same way. They are easy to spot.

Just enjoy the hunt. Enjoy the meat, the memories and the trophy if you get one. Get over the juvenile " mine's bigger than yours" mentality


Horn porn has ruined hunting

Hopefully all these jackasses on tv are just a fad. Hoping it wears off fast and hunting isnt the "cool" thing to do anymore. Let all these clowns make their quick buck off of it and move on to the next big thing. Sad thing is I think the damage is mostly done. The all mighty dollar has taken over and wont let go.. time will tell.

Meanwhile, back to "Deer harvest so far"

Tuesday after ML end 2015 (12/22/2015): 118,780
Today (12/21/2016): 113,937

Roughly -4% year-over-year

The gap is widening.

Good news?

Bad news?

TrapperDave Good post.

Exactly!!!!

That gap is likely going to get wider IMO. Probably don't have to give you my assessment of that....

I think it closes up with folks still holding bundle tags and the use of HPR in antlerless season...IMO ...but I doubt we catch up all the way to last year!

I agree with part of and disagree other parts with you post here...

I agree that we have too many gun days and I have stated that in the past... I am against the late gun season as I don't see it as necessary and I think if Muzzleloaders can be used in the regular Firearm season, then the two should be combined into one season, and I have argued for that in the past...

But here is where I disagree with you...

You claim Ohio regs are so great and the ALL hunters get the experience they want but that is totally false... They complain just as much as hunters here do about their DNR and their herd management practices...

Some have called for shorter bow season (which I think we should do here also... If someone doesn't need 30 plus days to gun hunt, then no one sure as heck don't need 90 plus to bow hunt either)

Most want a lottery for NR tags and a limit on how many...

Most want to raise the NR prices to closer to Iowa's and one wanted a reciprocal price so whatever it would cost them to hunt in your state you have to pay to hunt in Ohio...

They complain about lack of public access and they complain about leasing as well...


http://www.ohiosportsman.com/threads/lobbying-the-dnr-management-issue.70444/

Iowa is the same... Does get slaughtered and it s the same thing... Even some are complaining about "Big" Bucks in decline...

http://www.iowasportsman.com/forum/viewtopic.php?showtopic=991767

I think the total will be closer to the 120,000 figure from 2014.

If you look @ the last three seasons, the average harvest is right around 123,000. If this season ends up around 120,000 I would say that's pretty close to the previous 3 year average.

How about going with same dates not the days of the week... Maybe a better over all look..... Apples to Apples

So I'm assuming both you boys are good then if someone hunts just to hunt, just to have meat..... just to have memories...... or just to have trophies.

Or....... are you all for them enjoying the hunt, the meat, the memories or the trophies...... as long as they don't get more than what you think their "allotment" should be.... work harder at it than you.......or are better at one of those aspects/goals than you....


Just making sure.......... would hate for either of you to post something that you are "for/support"..... but post contrary posts in other parts of many forums in regards to some that excel in aspects of the hunt they are drawn too......... that exceeds your "satisfaction limit". Might get called a Hypocrite by someone in here....... :p

I stand corrected........ I should not have said "ALL"........ I should have said "MORE"....

[/QUOTE]How about going with same dates not the days of the week... Maybe a better over all look..... Apples to Apples [/QB][/QUOTE]

My reasoning is that doing it at the same point of the season v. the same date is a more valid comparison. You can miss an entire weekend doing it by dates, particularly in a leap year.

But:

12/21/2015: 118,254
12/21/2016: 113,937

Roughly -4% year-over-year.

Dew as I say, not as I Dew First of all, don't assume more from my two word response of "good post" to TrapperDave's entry as more than what it is...a two word response.

Secondly....I've supported ALL seasons and ALL legal equipment choices available to hunters for years. I've also supported the right of choice that hunters have to harvest whatever legal deer they choose to. And yes, that would include deer I won't intentionally harvest, like fawns and buttons. What I don't support is trying to take away season dates/length or equipment choices from one group of hunters so as to try and benefit another (like prop 1 did).

Compare that to people like you, who spend their time trying to find ways to convince the DNR to limit seasons and equipment choices they don't agree with. And while I obviously don't agree with doing that, I could perhaps respect it, if it weren't for the fact that even with all the time you've spent whining and complaining about the dates and length of the firearms season year after year after year, you didn't seem to have a problem hunting the last Saturday of this firearms season to kill that buck you wanted....

Two years in a row..

THAT is hilarious.

I wish this site had a "Like" button

No kidding. This whole thread is why I have reverted back to my joy of fishing.

This is like old "I Love Lucy" reruns...year after year.

Me too Weedy...bought me a bird dog, killin pheasants and fixed up my old fishin boat...bustin crappies and walleye's...life is good!

This stuff can be entertaining though. Kinda like
(Jerry) Springer Outdoors"

No kidding....lol!

ROFLMAO!

Rabbits are thick this year. Dogs are coming on strong. Three pups ready to start. Life is good!

As I was traveling today with a few hunting buddies.... we'd pop in on this thread once in awhile. Thanks jjas..... I had to clean Pepsi off my dash as my one buddy laughed it right out his nose after reading this goofy stuff you posted. After we laughed for a bit..... he said, "Damm, I wish I had a toy like that for Christmas".....LOL!!!!

Anyways...... jjas, I know you're tryin' real hard little buddy..... REAL hard to look credible..... but please keep in mind you're not gonna find any posts of mine that say I am trying to take away or limit weapons/equipment choices. You again resort to lies...... totally expected..... you can't stop yourself.

Secondly...... it took me 3 days this year to get my buck , last year (2015) I took no bucks in Indiana as I had no target, the year before that (2014) I took my buck in one day of gun hunting during the opener of Muzzy, as I did not hunt during the regular firearms season. 2013 I didn't gun hunt........and 2012 I took my buck in Archery, so again I didn't gun hunt Indiana. In 2011 I took 2 days to hunt and got my buck with a gun. So......in doing the math....... in the last 6 years of having the opp to hunt a buck with a gun...... It took me 6 days of hunting. I know that makes you F'ing Dizzy as you want folks to believe I was hunting like a fool and couldn't cash in till the "last weekend/day" ....... but I simply selected theeeee days that I had time to go. If the season were 10 days...... I would have selected the few days to go, and would have scored.......... if the season were 30 days, I still only needed to select the few days off I could put in my schedule. So..... the reality is jjas...... I don't need, and others don't need LENGTH in the season..... they just need a few days. And THAT my little angry buddy just keeps you up at night.

3rd...... people like you took Prop #1 away from the IDNR. I was at the meeting when the IDNR rep said they were behind and endorsed Prop #1...... you then undermined the IDNR to get it shredded, but now call yourself a "supporter" of the IDNR and label others as Hypocrites. :rolleyes:

You and your "mini-mee's" won't stop with false acidic claims, and down right lies....... and it whizzes you and your few off that this 30+ day gun season is gonna come to an end....... and people like me and many others prove you don't need 30+ days to hunt your "beloved buck".

Pony up little man.......... let's do lunch and put some reality in your "house of cards". Or, you can keep posting....edit your posts oh, about 5-7 times like you do now......as you just are obsessed with me and how to get out of your self imposed choke hold. How deep am I in your head daily jjas.......... LOL!!!!

I don't know... I think "MORE" might even be stretching it a bit...

I'd put their hunter satisfaction on par with ours... You might be having a great experience when you go there to hunt, but it sure doesn't sound like the rest of the hunters in the state are...

I highly doubt one would find many deer hunters in Iowa or Ohio (or Illinois or Kansas) that, given the choice, would be willing to trade their deer regs for the "management system" Indiana is currently saddled with.

Born and raised here, but have deer hunted all of the states listed above multiple times. Indiana has absolutely no business being the same conversation when it comes to deer management. That's more than two decades of in-the-field experience talking....not an opinion based on something I read on the internet or heard from an acquaintance.

Dew may never be accused of having a "politically correct" personality...but there is ALOT of truth in what he's saying.

Dew as I say, not as I Dew Really? This from a grown man who (according to his latest post) apparently talks with his "friends" about me, checks on the forum several times a day to see if/what I've posted, and then posts a diatribe addressed @ me (according to the forum clock) @ 2:42 AM.

I don't know if you were drinking or something, but you might want to re-read your latest post and see if the conclusion you came to earlier still makes sense to you....

Dew ;6 years only 6 days to kill your buck I get you Point but Not everyone hunts to Kill ? If that's what you want fine Myself I like hunting when I want to during the long season instead of when I would have to dictated by a short season!!What's wrong with Indianas Management ??Sounds like it's pretty good if That's all the time it takes for you to get your trophy

Exactly....

I'm not saying that hunters in other states want to trade management practices, but, if their hunters are complaining about the management of their herds, then what makes their rules better than ours?...

If we adopted their rules everyone who cries and moans on this site now, will continue to do so...

We have zero chance of adopting any rules which will put an end to 100% of the moaning and complaining. It's just human nature to complain.
I have no delusions of that happening...or desire to even make an attempt.

Resident hunters tend to be "conditioned" to the resident regs. I used to be as guilty of that as anyone. Then I started hunting other states and saw first hand what deer hunting in Indiana could be. It's not just about big antlers...but big antlers are definitely a by product of sound deer management.

I would encourage anyone...if you ever get the chance, have this discussion with a REAL deer biologist. I'm not talking about a state employee on a political gag order...I'm talking about a private sector deer biologist that actually manages a deer herd in the best interest, which includes carrying capacity and age structure, of the resource.

I would encourage anyone...if you ever get the chance, have this discussion with a REAL deer biologist. I'm not talking about a state employee on a political gag order...I'm talking about a private sector deer biologist that actually manages a deer herd in the best interest, which includes carrying capacity and age structure, of the resource.


Best post of this entire thread......


REAL deer biologists just shake their heads.

Sorry jjas........ couldn't get to you till now. Touring schools today with the new family coming over from Illinois.

As for your post...... I was the one driving yesterday, my buddies were the ones looking at your posts as they had no idea who you were.... and the entertainment level in the truck was at an all time high with them as they saw you floundering on what to do.....and then resorted to lies as a last ditch effort to look credible once again. They were just reading out loud the stuff you were spewing...... I guess for them the entertainment value could have looked like an obsession of what you posted for awhile.

As for the "drinking while typing"..... hmmmm, really? I've treated those with addictions for over 31 years in the industry I work in..... and I learned a long time ago that alcohol or drugs is NOT something to mess with..... as you will find no source of such in my home. So.... throw some more zhit my way..... once again, it won't stick. Interesting how you'll throw that kind of accusation my way........ but not even confronting your little minions that make Booze/Beer/Alcohol their ID here and make it clear that "violent beatings of others" is ok as it helps keep the planets aligned. You keep some pretty "healthy" company jjas :rolleyes: . But no worries...... I was as sober as they get at almost 3am in the morning as I was checking work emails, weather, my ebay account and had some time to send you a response. I was up late anyways from traveling...... it took no longer than 5 min of typing to clear up your antics again. I'll have to let the others I typed to last night at work, and family that I must be "obsessed" with them and must have been drinking as I spent more time typing to them than to you jjas last night....... LOL!!

Gotta wrap some Christmas Gifts........ tis' the season....

You've used links from Ohiosportsman.com...... probably one of the largest groups of Ohio deer hunters on the web. Put up a post saying it would be in the best interest of Ohio to go to a 30+ day season you could use a gun or a Muzzy..... leave it up for 30 days and get back with us on what happens.

Keep in mind there will always be a little squabbling from little pieces of this and that in any deer hunting state ( I agree with you on that) ....... but slam them with that 30+ gun days change and see what they do....

I can remember my first year hunting in Ohio...... my friend with me was a measurer for P&Y, B&C and HRB. We were very familiar with Kosciusko County's deer that were checked in....and at the time, most were checked in at one location in Warsaw called Albertson's Sport shop. They always had a contest going... and pics of up the bigger deer in that contest..... most years there were 15-20 P&Y deer checked in all season......and about every 3-4 years you'd see a Gross Boone come in.

As my buddy and I rolled into Ohio that first year to hunt......... we left about November 10th. The little gas station in town had a small check station for the county and a board up for putting up your pics that were deer checked in. When we left early in November to come back home...... There were 34 deer on that board that were P&Y deer, and two NET Boone's. Theeee absolute SCAREY and mind blowing part of that was ........ gun season, and muzzy season hadn't even happened yet!!! And if that wasn't enough to blow our minds...... that little gas station and little check station was only 1 of 8 check stations in that County.

Changed me forever......

Every farm we leased had P&Y, OBBC (HRB equivalent) and some Booners........ and one farm had 13 hunters that had it the year before us. The regs made the difference....... everyone in the area had a chance for "the dream buck". Hunting was "SO unpopular" and "so many upset" about the regs...... the local schools closed up for opening day as most kids were out enjoying those "terrible regs". LOL!!!

10 years later........ those farms have netted me 4 P&Y entries, 4 OBBC entries, and 1 Booner entry........All with Archery gear.

And there are those walking around in here wanting to keep others from having that type of experience....... and resort to lies and distortion to build their case.

Most are now catching on....... there is a better way.

The only thing that is wrong is the length of gun/muzzy seasons..... my success isn't because of Indiana's regs......it's because of MY regs I follow on MY properties during gun season and doe tag #'s I set for my properties. EVERY hunter in my counties I own or lease in want to hunt my properties because they follow Indiana regs for gun season length and doe tags to be filled, or have neighbors that follow Indiana regs for gun season and doe tags to be filled........and they WRECK their properties by following Indiana regs when it comes to gun days and doe tag limits....

It's like having a 100 mph speed limit in Indiana and everyone starts driving at 100 mph.... and getting killed off left and right........ and then get pizzed I'm still alive and thriving cause I self impose still a 55 mph limit on myself.

People want the "prize"........but they don't want the "work" or "discipline".

As Bobby Knight used to say....... "everyone wants to play on Saturday, but nobody wants to come to practice".

Jesus Christ, Dew....do you ever shut up?

On and on and on and on......

Back to the original topic, 114,110 have now been checked in.

Dew, you said your success isn't because of Indiana's regs but the regs that you set for your properties. My question is, isn't the responsibility to manage our own properties on us no matter what and Indiana's responsibility to manage the total state wide deer herd?

You obviously only hunt deer for the antlers and bragging rights. My guess is you don't even eat deer meat which is fine. All of your arguments are based around managing for big bucks. That can be accomplished by managing your own properties and has absolutely nothing to do with the state regs. In my family between my kids and I we can kill a lot of deer however we killed 4 and called it a season. Just because the seasons are long and weapon of choice are numerous doesn't mean the herd gets wiped out. I just don't understand your argument except that you only want big bucks.

If my deer hunting was determined by the least amount of time in the Woods to kill the biggest buck I could I would Quit . That is a pathetic analogy of a successful season ,And to expect everyone to be like you is equally pathetic ,^^^^^^

.....and if I was typing what you wanted to hear, I'd be your "best buddy". As a grown man, I would suggest you just ignore what I post.... as it's not meant to cause you misery.

..... unless you DESERVE misery.....

I numbered my responses to your questions.....was just easier.....hope that's OK

"Dew as I say, not as I Dew"

You finally figured that out!

Good on you!

My "successful season" doesn't need to match your "successful season"..... sorry if my success plan doesn't match yours, and apparently that entitles you to call other hunters "pathetic".

I think my responses to API earlier may help give you some insight.

Once again....... you attempt to twist to "your advantage".

I'm not saying the herd will be wiped out....... never had. Find where I have posted that. I have asked you repeatedly to put up posts you claim as "truth" of your lies about me....... I challenge you again. You'd think slithering around on your belly all the time would give you a blister or somethin'...LOL!!!

I'm saying the herd is being reduced drastically, and "quantity" will no longer be the card the IDNR to keep playing to keep most involved. They will have to introduce "quality" within the regs to keep allot involved with "quantity" gone.

But......... you're not interested playing nice if it has anything to do with what your ego can't handle.......and that's seeing Quality Management come to front and center for our state.

To H E L L with Quality Management you say...... and undermine the IDNR if that is what they wanted in Prop #1. And now want to be labeled as a supporter of the IDNR...LOL!! The only time you "support something" is if you FORCED it to do what you wanted. Would just LOVE living in your home....LOL!!

Nope........ I killed a Big Azz Buck in 3 days of firearms season hunting.

And yes.......that's a good thing.

But you don't like THAT version. And you have to edit your posts over and over as you just are OBSESSED with me and how that makes sense.....and presents a HUGE crack in your logic....LMAO!!

Dew as I say, not as I Dew,
First you killed a deer on day 15 of the firearms season after complaining about the gun season for years...and now....THIS!

I'm impressed!

I think someone's getting just a weee bit grumpy....LOL!! And we don't even know who those quotes you used are from, or what your trying to explain ......LMAO!!!

Dew as I say, not as I Dew

C'mon now, don't get "Grinchy"....you've made some real progress over the last few weeks.

A day 15 firearms harvest and then you admitted that "Just because the seasons are long and weapon of choice are numerous doesn't mean the herd gets wiped out."

Way to go!

Ohhh God......... I am rolling on the floor laughing!! You are using something APIbowhunter posted.....it's his quote...... not mine...LOL!!!

I know you're tryin' hard little buddy........

Time to edit another one of your filthy acidic lying attempts?? :p

Dew as I say, not as I Dew My mistake, but hey the way it was posted was a bit confusing. Oops!

But it really doesn't matter as you've still made huge progress with your day 15 firearms season harvest after all those years of complaining.

And I'm very, very proud of you for that!

It's obvious that your "agenda" needs it to say "15 day firearm harvest".......when in reality it only took me 3 gun days of hunting out of 30+ days available to get my buck.

I know that swallows hard for you..... as it presents a crack in your "logic" for your agenda of screwing Indiana out of a more Quality Deer Management Regs. And what grinds you the most........is that you FORCED your way to the front of the bus for a few short years.....and now you are getting thrown the back of the bus and you know your "time is up".

Dew as I say, not as I Dew,

You can nit pick all you want, but you know what I meant... . And sniping @ me won't diminish what you've accomplished!

You managed to put aside years of calling for the firearms season to be shortened/moved and risked being considered a hypocrite, all so you could realize a day 15 November dream.

Kudos!

And you can nit pick all YOU want as you know....and my history shows......and 1,000's of others hunters shows........ Ya don't need 30+ days of gun hunting to get it done.

Basically what you are demanding is given the 30+ days we now have to hunt,...... you better not bittch unless you hunt the day jjas says you can within the 30 days you thought you had to pick from. He won't care how many gun days you took to hunt, and got it done...... he just will care what day it fell on during the season. This also says he delusionally believes that if the season was 15-20 days...... most of us would be incapable of getting our gun hunting done, or incapable of picking our own number of days to gun hunt within those 15-20 days to get it done..... even though states around us show it is possible to get it done in less than 12 days.

......now......go live in his house for more things he will FORCE on you so his agenda gets met.

Wait....... I almost forgot....... we ARE living in the house he FORCED our IDNR to build with Prop #2 he rammed through. And he loves this house he forced built so much...... he ain't leaving alive even if it means to resorting to lying and deception.

He can't stop himself.....his ego wont let him........

More to come I'm sure......

Dew, it just seems like your agenda is big bucks only so I apologize for assuming you don't shoot does. As far as some other issues go let's just agree to disagree. Hope you and your family have a Merry Christmas!

All is good....... no worries. Have a good Christmas yourself.

Hunting is not a job or a chore You work at till you "Get it Done" Me or Thousands like me don't Hunt to get it done Doesn't sound like much fun if you hunt just to "Get it done"

So........ if you hunt just to sit out there...... have at it man. I hope you enjoy yourself. At least I'll know any regs that are set or changed wont effect you in the least...... you're out there just to sit out there. Good for you.

You wouldn't make my buddy list if you pooped gold every other step!
Sorry to burst your bubble

11 more **** posts by you in last 24 hrs on this topic... Guess my question is answered.

There's a big difference in Hunting to Kill and Killing in order to have hunted . First Time I went out west when we stopped in Goldrn Colorado I went to a barns and Noble and Bought a Sibleys on Birds out West and Wild flowers of the Rockies You see a Hunt is way more than a kill to me
I kinda feel sorry for you that killing in As short a time as possible determines your success !!! No I don't just kidding

You can sit in the woods all year. I hunt to kill what I'm after kind of thought that was the point. Doesn't mean I don't enjoy the outdoors while doing it. But I don't have to be hunting to do that. Tagged out or not.

The perfect season for me would be to fill my tag on my target buck on the last day of the late archery season after spending 80 days trying to do it prior, but even if I don't I'm still a happy man and would not try and shorten- move any of our deer season in hopes that I can get it done with less effort in the future seasons.

Got a fatty doe to finish up the season. I got 51# of boneless not including the tenderloins which made for a couple nice steak and egg breakfasts. With my buck, I got 136# in the freezer this season.

[img]https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1....8aad379bc0240dea30cd3da7bf01&oe=58D861DE[/img]

Harvest is at 118,391 right now which compares to a little over 121,000 on Jan. 1, 2016. Looks like we'll be a little lower than last year but pretty close to 2014. Trend is stable.

I wish everyone a Happy New Year. I was blessed in many ways in 2016 but overall, I'm happy it's over.

I'm happy it's over too John.

Not as optimistic as you on the "trend" though.

Here's why...

The month of November 2014 was pretty bad weather wise. The last week of archery and first week+ of firearms were unseasonably cold....with snow and ice in many areas. I missed a fish fry in southern Indiana with the gun hunters on the farm first Monday of firearms season because of icy road conditions. Northern Indiana got hammered with snow from the same system. I believe South Bend received over a foot of snow right before the opener. That arctic blast was followed up by a major wind event the second week of firearms season.

IMO, due to the extreme weather, Indiana deer hunters left extra groceries on the shelf in 2014....which equated to a higher harvest in 2015. Guess what I'm saying is....I believe the 2014 harvest is artificially low and the 2015 harvest artificially high due to weather conditions. Given equal conditions, I believe those numbers could have easily been flipped.

This year, firearm season opened as early as possible and we again had very good weather conditions. Even with the introduction of rifles, we're still going to end up short...with the lowest harvest total since 2003.

The trend I'm seeing / experiencing is nothing close to stable. The first year of Prop #2, we killed over 136,000 animals. Five years later, we're at roughly 118,000 (with rifles). I'm not a guy that believes EVERY deer killed with a rifle would have survived otherwise....but I do believe there were SOME deer killed with rifles that would have survived otherwise. The real answer lies somewhere in between....and would drop that 118,000 number even lower without rifles in the mix.

The number of deer I saw while hunting this year (lowest ever by far)is unacceptable given my 25 years on the same Ripley and Jefferson county properties. The number of deer I've seen while driving back and forth to work in unimaginable given the 17 years of daily commutes I've made on the same 34 mile round trip stretch of road in Jackson and Bartholomew counties. Saw a deer along this stretch Saturday morning...first deer I've seen while driving too and from work since mid-November. That's simply unprecedented.

The harvest is definitely falling. Just how far people are willing to let it fall remains to be seen. Already too far in many areas...and the recovery, if there is one, won't be overnight.

If it wasnt for the introduction of the now much longer range tool(Rifles), we wouldnt even have the kill numbers this season we do .... I think someone earlier said the gun kill was up.... that may be the only "season" that was up...

I think the real answer is an unknown without some real population studies.

I am another data point of "One hunter" but I saw more deer this year than in the past 4-5 yrs with about the same hunting effort (I do not track hours logged) hunting in Parke, Montgomery, and Tippecanoe counties. My son killed a doe the first day of youth season. I killed a buck the first Monday of gun. Both with a .243 (and both within shotgun range) =)

Just saw 7 does cross right in front of me last week right by home.... herd around here is doing "OK"

You are probably on to something Paul related to population. My statement that the "[harvest] trend is stable" is just that, a statement. And a true one at that. No optimistic bias intended.

The only real data we have is the harvest. The harvest trend is stable over the past 3 years.

I understand that harvest and population are different and certainly not correlated in an exact way. And the public policy goals of the management agency were stated to be deer population reduction when the last major policy change occurred. There is sufficient evidence now that this policy was effective. None of this should be a surprise.

I saw more deer on my property...and bigger deer..than I have in many years

your lucky then...Porter Co. was horrendous from what numerous landowners have told me... I know of several that would not allow the rifles or does killed on their places till the herd starts showing an increase on their places... Jasper/Pulaski didnt even break 100 deer killed from what I was told today, maybe only in the 80ish deer killed range...wont know the exact numbers till they get the final check in tally from the state...need to see the hunter numbers also, but anyway you look at it, it sucked .... not sure of Kingsbury yet, but again after talking to a handful of guys that put in their time there said deer were non-existent (so to speak) ...

PAV,
I like the case you make...You obviously think like I do. I remember the 2014 weather.
I also believe the truth lies somewhere in the middle, and that EHD was a BIG factor. So,
Do you expect us to have a harvest of 100,000 5 years from now? If it continues to drop significantly over the next 5 years I think we have a bigger problem than I see right now.
I haven't been seeing deer from the road for several years. I've been wondering if it's just that the deer are becoming more nocturnal or less likely to show themselves due to deer hunters being in the woods 365 days/year checking cameras, trimming lanes, food plots etc...
Another thing I find interesting is I'm seeing way more mature bucks being taken than I could've ever imagined. I'm not saying that it means anything? But the last 3 years or so, I'm dumbfounded by the pictures I'm getting from buddies of mature bucks being killed.

119,220 as of this morning.

That compares to 125,045 on the Wednesday after the extra antlerless season ended last year. (Interestingly, that number is about 2,000 deer fewer than the total from the Deer Harvest Summary Report. I suppose there were corrections?)

So it looks like roughly a 4.5% decline in the harvest from last year. My guess is that should start to get some attention.

A few points...

1. If the harvest number for this season stayed where it is right now (119,220), we would see a harvest decline of 3.5% (as compared to last season). Two seasons ago we were @ 120,073 and last season we ended up @ 123,664. Ups and downs occur.

2. Herd reduction. The reality is...like it or not...agree with it or not....if herd reduction is working, the harvest numbers SHOULD drop and level out @ a lower number than previous seasons. Where will that number end up? 120,000? 115,000? A bit higher? A bit lower? Somewhere in between? I guess time will tell.

3. What matters more IMO, is the makeup of the harvest, the break down of the numbers by county, and the comparison of county totals over the last few seasons. The harvest reports provide those numbers.

And those harvest reports ONLY supply "numbers"..... they do not give the "story behind the numbers" as they are NOT simply "comparative" numbers from year to year. We have not had season after season after season the last several years with the same regs in place................... we have had HUGE changes (addition of crossbows, rifles and extended antlerless specific seasons that make harvest easier and more attainable to those that would not have had a harvest or multiple harvests with old regs) in the last seasons to help make the "numbers" appear like there is not a drastic reduction in our herd. The graduated "piling on" of these easier to use/longer yardage weapons and length of antlerless season with a gun over the last few years is the TRUTH behind those numbers.

To ignore that fact is just plain "Obamacare Stupid".......


We have proven once again........ hunters will NOT regulate the booger finger on their own given the chance to just shoot. Yes.... herd reduction was the goal........ and it has decisively happened........and the weapon/season of choice to get those numbers down was the gun and lengthy gun season. Story after story coming in from our County goes like this......

1) People getting out of deer hunting

2) People losing their ground due to few numbers of deer and people kicking the "irresponsible shooters" out.....and more responsible hunters in. Those with $$ are leasing out the idiots where and when they can. This trend will continue....and will leave less hunters in the pool to sell tags to.

3) Those still taking care of their deer herd are still doing ok, barely .... and that is not because of the IDNR regs.......it's because of their own responsible regs they practice on their own ground. Their borders are taking beating by those that could care less....and have ran out of deer to shoot on places they used to hunt. The owners of private land that are getting tired of this WILL BE the voice that gets gun season shortened. The hunters that are tired of not seeing deer WIL BE the voice of getting "irresponsible takers" leased off or moved off the properties. It's happening now...... the lower numbers of deer are going to accelerate this even more.

4) More speaking up to reduce gun days than ever. Many are sick of what they have seen. If they can't have "quantity" anymore...... they at least would like to have some "quality" to keep them interested. The "perfect mess" is low quantity AND low quality.......and Indiana leads the Midwest in that recipe right now with over 30+ days to gun hunt for bucks, and middle of the rut gun hunting, AND extended seasons to just hunt antlerless.

Yup ........

Word on the street is Lic. Sales have spiked up this year!

The property borders are killing us...especially during the late antlerless season. Two out of the last three years, there has been corn on neighboring properties well into the winter months. Those fields draw every deer for miles once other food sources dry up.

Also, noticing increased evidence of trespassing. With 40 days of gun hunting...it is virtually impossible to keep close tabs on the property.

Don't forget the 100+ plus days of BowHunting for trespassers to use also :rolleyes:

In the end, like it or not, the decision was made to try to reduce the herd.

And while people complain about the firearms seasons, the FACT of the matter is, unless/until the bow hunters in this state prove that they can/will step up and help manage the herd, the firearms seasons are THE management tool.

Finally...while it's easy to complain about things we don't like, I find it totally hypocritical for the main complainer to b*tch about the firearms season for years on end, whining and crying about the length/timing of it, yet when it benefits him, he sure didn't seem to mind taking advantage of those extra days this firearms season so he could hang another head on the wall....

I get that Brew...but the reality is, we have only caught one bowhunter trespassing in 25 years. One reason for that is we're bowhunters and spend alot more time at the farm during archery season.

The other reason is most trespassers hunt the fringes. Big difference between a guy near the property line with 35 yards of effective range versus a guy in the same tree with 250 yards of effective range. More "incentive" (risk versus reward) for the guy with extra range to push the envelope.

I used to gun hunt too...and it wasn't the weapon that turned me against firearms season. It was people. I'm sure there are azzwipes in the woods during bowseason...but there are ALOT more of them in the woods during firearms season.

In no way do I intend to insinuate all gun hunters are cut from the same cloth. Some of my best friends and even family members gun hunt.

I am sure if Bowhunters where required to wear orange you would caught many more....IMO

I read something a while back that changed my responses on these forums. I think many on these type of threads may be suited to contemplate.

It went something like this: Think about what it takes to get you to change your mind or take a new position on something you value. Now imagine what it would take for you to effect the opinion of a stranger on a forum that has been making the same arguments for years. Now think about all the time you're likely wasting trying to convince them.

I personally decided conversations and questions are good but the same regurgitation of crap from the same people over and over really was just a waste of time trying to convince them it's crap. Just something to think about. But then again it's cold outside and maybe someone will get luck and swing the pendulum for someone, haha.

Cody.Query, if I had an award to give, it'd go to you for the Wisest Post so far in 20 pages

This thread has run its course! Dooms day is upon us all the deer are dead and so is this thread> BOOM!

How can that be? Knowitall Dew says hunters are dropping out

And wasn't all these hyper long range rifles of cervid destruction going to put the harvest numbers through the roof?

Back to the original topic.. 119,234 have been checked in so far

In my experience, trespassers typically don't wear orange while in the act of trespassing. They are already breaking the law. Why would breaking another law that otherwise might get you caught matter?

We don't have any idea what that number would look like without rifles? Safe bet it would be lower though.

I'd bet 99% killed with a rifle would be just as dead with a muzzleloader or shotgun.

With so much talk of how the deer herd would be negatively impacted this season with hprs, I went back and looked @ the firearms harvest totals from 2011/2015 and compared that with the rough data available from this past season.

The average number of deer harvested during that time was 73,000 per firearms season.

The average number of antlered deer harvested during that time was was 32,000 per firearms season.

The average number of antlerless deer harvested during that time was 41,000 per firearms season.

For the 2016 firearms season, the rough figure for these 16 days was approximately 75,000 deer. But...this figure includes deer taken by bow, crossbow, shotgun, handgun, rifle, and muzzleloader during those 16 days and as such, that figure is normally adjusted down to reflect the bow and crossbow kills by a couple of thousand deer.

If these figures hold when the harvest report is published, that would put this years firearms season harvest total right around the previous 5 year average.

Seriously!?

I would take that bet in a heartbeat. My guess is the number of deer killed this year at long range (beyond typical shotgun range) is in the thousands. Yes, some of those deer may have been killed later at closer ranges...but definitely not all or even 99% of them.

I can't argue with that. The majority of deer in any given year are absolutely killed with firearms.

So, if/when the time comes the state feels reduction is achieved and they maybe need to cut back on season lengths....it sounds like bowhunters can count on your support to shorten gun season (management tool) and leave bow season (recreational tool) alone...right?

Lol....

IMO for anyone to make a legitimate case for the firearms seasons to be shortened, the archery hunters (and yes that includes crossbow hunters) need to step up and become more of a management tool instead of a recreational tool and 25% of the total harvest doesn't reach that criteria.

I shortened my firearms season for the past 2 years. Not 1 day spent on stand.

RIP...Gundude

I would say 100%....dead is dead. h.h.

yea, if they were closer .... SMH ... I know of several guys who killed deer in the south county that used .243 and.308's and they said they never would have killed them if it wasnt for the rifles, as they wouldnt have attempted the shots with their slug guns....it seems there is some one on here that killed a good buck at an extended range with a rifle...like I said earlier, the only reason we had the kill we did this year was because of a more efficient weapon and the ability and the want to shoot at longer ranges.... the gun kill WAS UP, that will be the only season that was....

My shot was 180yds, but my Accura V2 could easily do that.

On my way home a few mins ago, I saw 20-23 deer feeding together in snow covered field (urban zone)!
I may have to go back out for one more! LOL

One thing that needs to be considered isn't just whether a particular deer would have been killed but whether that hunter would have killed a deer with a shorter range weapon. In other words, would that hunter's success rate been different if he/she didn't have a longer range weapon. I'd guess in most cases, the answer is no.

Killing a deer isn't that hard, even with a 100 yard gun. And as far as population management, it is even easier to kill any doe with a 100 yard gun. So a hunter who wants to kill a doe will kill one with some exceptions of course even if they have to get within 100 yards of one.

In the end, the effect of HPRs on overall population is probably negligible. They probably did bump the harvest a point or two.

Yup, was about to type this exact response. I agree 100%.

About an hour earlier, there were about 25 turkeys in the same place.

I agree with you John, good post. I know a few guys who killed does at long range, but just because they could. I don't know anybody personally that shot a buck at long range.

So........ you are advocating that our bow hunters still be forced into a false label of "recreational" since they currently aren't allowed to be recognized for their full potential as they get squashed out of 40+ days of gun hunters taking over.

In Ohio..... those same bow/crossbow hunters get to show how effective they can be for another 27 days without having to get squashed by the gun hunters....... AND they get to hunt during the easiest time of the year to get a deer without gun hunting interference.... the rut..... AND ..... they get to hunt all through January into early February with their bow/crossbow.....and the result is that the Ohio DNR sees them as a "management tool"....because they ALLOW them to be a "management tool".

In fact........ I remember Woody making the case to our IDNR using Ohio stats saying if they would scrap Prop #1 and allow crossbows like Ohio .... the Archery Hunters of this State would no longer be seen as "recreational" and would become a force for being a "management tool". He just forgot to add other regs Ohio had to make sure the Archery gang got to flex their full muscle. Hmmmmmm...... wonder why he left THAT out.... LOL!!


So...... jjas....... are you willing to let the bow/crossbow hunters do what you know they CAN do?? Or do you still want to just "Pigeon Hole" them in the corner and label them as "recreational" so the gun hunters still get to hunt their beloved bucks for 30+ days.... and get the "false label" and get the "false credit" for "Indiana's only management tool".

Pony up to the bar..........

Well, well, well...quite the list of "witticisms" and criticism from the forums resident hypocrite again...

Let's get started....


As far as the archery season goes...

If it weren't for crossbow hunters, archery hunters would have accounted for a whopping 16% of the total harvest in 2015. And that is for a season that lasts 3 full months. Seems like plenty of opportunity to fill a tag to me...

Next subject...

The fact that Woody is still this deep in your head after all these years is a bit sad to say the least. You're big on inviting people to lunch, so perhaps it would be a good idea for you to invite Woody and work out your issues with him. Might make you feel better....

Finally (and this is my favorite)...

Dew as I say, not as I Dew You seriously went there?

After whining and crying and b*tching and moaning and groaning about the firearms season for years, did you conveniently forget about filling your tag this season with the "beloved buck" (that you even named) on the last Saturday of the FIREARMS SEASON....

What a hypocrite....

Just getting what I typed on this new page for all to see....

1) You can call me names all you want, and come up with your little "nursery rhyme chants"....... it's all you got left as I've absolutely GUTTED your feeble, house of cards, smoke and mirrors "logic".....

2) Again...... you forget to include that DURING that 3 month period archery took place..... 40+ days of it most were toting guns, during the middle of the rut which does not allow the bow hunters to show what they REALLY can do......like other States allow their Bow Hunters to do. You simply regurgitate numbers without displaying the TRUE FRAMEWORK behind those numbers. You are LIVID, PIZZED OFF FIRE-ANTS that I'm shining a light into your Kock-roach eyes.... and bringing to the table TRUTH you simply do not want to acknowledge. Live with it Dude...... I'm gonna force this pill down your throat for all to watch....

3) You lay in bed at night stewing how to explain how the State gave me "16 days to get to Florida (get a buck with a gun)".... and I took the last 3 days to "Make my Trip to Florida"...and got there. :p But you want to say it took me "the entire 16 days for me to arrive in Florida".......and I only was in the car (hunted) 3 days. I didn't NEED the 16 days....... I only needed 3. I CHOSE what days I drove the car.... and it INFURIATES you I and other States around us display year after year after year... it takes WAY less days "to get to Florida" than what we are given. And so then you lay in bed for many more nights just hoping if you fling the word "Hypocrite" around as much as you can......something might "stick". It stuck alright.......... right to the middle of your house of cards...... and you seethe and obsess on how to get out the knot that is now twisted in your own logic and own words and own undermining of our IDNR the YOU were involved in. You know .........I know........other Midwest States know........It don't take 30+ days of gun season in the middle of the rut to get the job done......... and You know.........I know........and other Midwest States know that handcuffing bow and crossbow hunters and then calling them "recreational" is a joke.

I'm SO in your head........ and you can't stop....

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Problem is, you are putting the cart in front of the horse with that statement. What you are asking for is actually a result...not an antecedent.

Shorten gun season significantly and the archery/crossbow harvest percentage will climb. The two absolutely go hand in hand. A short gun season is the reason Ohio archery/crossbow hunters account for roughly 45% of the total harvest(yes, Ohio archery/crossbow hunters are killing more deer annually than Indiana gun hunters are killing during firearms season).

When gun season doesn't offer enough recreational opportunity to keep hunters satisfied, they pick up other weapons and keep hunting.

Pav,

The vertical bow archery harvest (as a percentage of total harvest) has been stagnant for years. It dropped to 16% in 2015 and quite frankly vertical archery hunters haven't shown any inclination to do what you are suggesting they will. With a full 3 month season, and 6 weeks of that season (more or less) to themselves, the opportunity to step up and assume a larger part of herd management has been (and continues to be) available.

Perhaps you are right in that it will change and if/when it does, maybe the DNR will decide to take a look at the season structure @ that time. But until then, with herd reduction ongoing and firearms hunters paying the bulk of the bills and managing the herd, I can't see why they would change much of anything...

Dew, I say, not as I dew....

6+ years of the same long winded, silly comments capped off with a bit of hypocrisy and threats that have never materialized....

It's really gotten boring....

Why don't you guys give it a rest!

Agreed

119242 From Sept 15, 2016 to Friday, January 6, 2017

Where is the "LIKE" button when you need it?

I agree as well. My apologies to all and I'll do my very best to not get involved in it again.

Vertical bow opportunity has not changed much in many years (its basically maxed out). We have introduced crossbows and additional gun days in recent years. Additional weapon options and more days to hunt with with those weapons are going to affect the harvest percentages. You start out with a whole pie...but the more slices you take from a pie, the smaller the slices become.

I would also offer that we're not recruiting new vertical bowhunters at a significant rate. Most bowhunters started out a gun hunters and picked up bowhunting for the additional opportunity. Today, folks have the option to gain that same opportunity without learning to shoot a vertical bow. They can take a crossbow right off the shelf....aim and shoot it using the same form as their guns. The incentive (extra opportunity) for people to transition to vertical bows has basically been eliminated.

The percentage I posted from Ohio (45% of total harvest) was vertical bow and crossbow combined.
In 2015, that was a combined 26% of the Indiana harvest. If we reduce gun days, that percentage will climb...just as it did in Ohio.

To be clear, I have no delusions of Indiana adopting shorter gun seasons for the sake quality hunting. If it happens, IMO it will be due to over harvest. If we get to that point, it just makes sense to shorten the "management" season versus the "recreation" season.

I have no inside sources or information...but I won't be surprised if our deer seasons look alot like Ohio's sometime in the not too distant future.

Pav,

I obviously can't disagree that with crossbow inclusion, overall archery harvest percentages are up. When you look @ the data, before crossbow inclusion in 2012 the archery harvest accounted for roughly 20% of the total yearly total. Since crossbow inclusion for all, over the last four seasons (2012/15) the archery harvest has risen to 27% of the yearly total harvest.

I also agree that eventually the firearms seasons will likely be shortened and/or moved. But, IMO the percentage of the total harvest by archery hunters is going to drive that bus. Having said that...for the IDNR to make any major changes before those trends are clear (as indicated by the percentage of total harvest by archery hunters steadily growing), makes little sense to me.

Regardless, it will definitely be interesting to see what happens as the next few seasons pass.

Thanks for the post.

With Archery going up did firearm harvest go down acordingly stay the same or go up too ??

Constructive conversation 👍.

Yea...f'n great...more crossgun guys in my archery season...(sarcasm intended for those in Rio Linda)

I looked @ two different seasons several years apart (2009 and 2015), to come up with this snapshot.


In 2009, Archery season accounted for 22%, firearms season 63%, muzzleloader season 14%, youth season 1% of the total harvest.

In 2015, archery season (bow and crossbow) accounted for 26%, firearms season 59%, muzzleloader season 9%, late antlerless 4%, youth season 2% of the total harvest.

If broken down by equipment type...

In 2009, archery equipment accounted for 22% and firearms equipment account for 77% of the total harvest. The remaining 1% is the youth harvest.

In 2015, archery equipment (including crossbows) accounted for 26% and firearms equipment accounted for 72% of the total harvest. The remaining 2% is the youth harvest.

I just hope we don't resort to legalizing baiting in Indiana.

I would be just fine with adopting deer Ohio's season structure though!

And the value of it is
X=5cm

Shortening firearms season or moving it to a later date will not affect the total harvest numbers. Lowering bag limits will. Opening weekend of firearms season is the deadliest two days there is for being a deer. Many "hunters" will never step foot in the woods again until opening weekend next season.

Amen and Amen!

I can see your point *IF* firearm season was only shortened by a couple of days. But I did say "significantly shortened". Ohio has 7 days of general firearm, 2 days of late firearm and 4 days of very late ML. A total of 13 days compared to Indiana's 39 days (at minimum). I cannot envision killing the same number of deer in 1/3rd or less of the days afield.

That would be a good thing to me and the deer pop. ...

The supporters of Prop. 1 said that's exactly what would have happened if it had pass....prop. 2 was watered down according to some of them!

pav You may very well be correct, but I cannot envision the IDNR cutting firearms season(s) down to that level.

To do so, would likely result in the herd numbers rising to (and eventually exceeding) the levels they were before reduction was implemented, IMO.

I think we should back off on the population reduction goal.

That said, if you look at just the harvest numbers, which is what everyone does since it's our only real data, there is no public policy argument for that.

5% or even 10% variation in the kill will not change policy. In fact, if my goal was to reduce population, I would argue that we haven't done enough. Despite making it easier to kill more deer, hunters simply are not doing that. There's a lot of devil's advocate in that statement so if you quote it, quote the context too. My point, is that if you are really after a policy change, be prepared for pretty reasonable argument against changing population reduction goals.

I'd speculate the path forward is going to be status quo; if only to allow the dust settle. My guess is that for the next 4 years, we will see very few policy changes as it relates to deer hunting. That coincides with our new administration as well as the period of the HPR trial. We also have a relatively new deer biologist.

I kinda wished we would adopt Maine's way of harvesting... You are only ONE deer, PERIOD... They have some areas where you may take an extra Does but we could do our own thing here...

Now, I would never tell anyone how to hunt (like some people here like to do) and I say, take whatever makes you happy, however, if you were only limited to one deer people would be a lot more choosy and not shoot dinks that may only yield enough meat for a slick meat sandwich...

I only hunted two day this year (got my deer the second morning of gun season)... I shot a half-racked buck that probably weighed up in the range of 220 - 250 pounds... I knew my season was over the second I shot him due to his size... I KNOW when to stop unlike some... If I had to continued to hunt then I was out to shoot and not hunt... I didn't need anymore meat as I still had half a Doe from last year...

I SMH when I see people think they have all the answers and say their ideas are part of the solution and come here and boast about their "successes" of killing multiple deer a year and then complain when everybody does it and ***** about deer numbers being down... If you want to help make your hunting experience better, then start by changing YOUR hunting habits first before you complain about others hunting habits

Killing multiple deer and then continue to go out into the field for more IS NOT PART OF THE SOLUTION, IT JUST AND ADDS TO THE PROBLEM...If you are going complain about something then do not participate in it...

I do not like nor agree with the late gun anterless season, therefore, I do not participate in it... I do not have the time nor put in the effort to to shoot my bow, therefore I haven't archery hunted in a few years... I haven't shot any of my muzzleloaders or hunted in the muzzleloader season in over ten years... Maybe that is why I see deer every year when I hunt... I KNOW when to quit and I know when to adjust my hunting when I see a problem... The past few seasons have been my best hunting... I stopped shooting multiple deer, I went to using a single shot gun (though I did kill my deer this year with a four shot rifle I tried hunting with my buddy's rifle) and I have truly enjoyed my hunting experience... The only issue I have with rifles is the safety aspect due to bullet travel capabilities but I'm not against their use for hunting...

Now I will agree with you Dew, pav, and Jeff that 40 day gun hunting is a bit much and I have publicly stated so... If I had the opportunity to change hunting, I would get rid of the late gun season, move muzzleloaders into the general firearm season and do away with its own season as it is not needed if you can use them there... But I would keep the season where it is at and at 16 days to give Hoosiers who pay for the privilege to hunt plenty of opportunity to do so...

Shorting the gun season may help a little (but not by much) with numbers... Only allowing a buck and doe or two does per year max would do a lot more in bringing back deer numbers as it would FORCE people out of the woods and help elevate the pressure on the herd... Also,I believe that if you shorten or move the firearm season that the General Assembly WILL GET involved and put it back... They got involved in allowing rifles, they'll get involved here as well, mark my words... So arguing for a shorter and moved season probably is pretty much moot...

Bryan78 hit the nail on the head and drove it all the way home...and didn't even have to mention prop f'n 1. I bet "prop 1" has been mentioned here more than the word DEER.

Just for the record:

I don't believe I've ever told anyone how to hunt or what animal to shoot. I could care less what ones weapon of choice happens to be... within the law, what size buck trips their trigger or how many deer they should take... within the law (although I do cringe when I see a truck bed full of dead fawns).

I have a lifetime license, but have not killed a deer in Indiana since 2014....by choice. According to my records, I have not killed a doe since 2008 (primarily due to a couple EHD events in my hunting area). My definition of "deer management" has little to do with harvest and much to do with habitat improvement/enhancement.

What does get under my skin is the fact the state in which I live chooses to treat the deer herd like vermin...not much better than coyotes...and the majority of deer hunters seem to care less. That's why I don't fit under the big tent.

119,280 checked in so far.

Amen, Paul.

So using the actual harvest reported, here is the trend for the past 10 years, actual and with a 5 year rolling average to smooth out the bumps.

And here is the 5 year trend which I believe is closer to reality since we have seen a lot of changes in this time. But you have to keep in mind that 2012 was our record year.

It might prove interesting to again check arlowe13's post (shown above) on page 7 of this thread. The total annual harvest numbers seem to agree with those put out by IDNR. However, I am wondering upon what the firearms kill numbers are based??

UPDATE: I think I finally figured out the answer to my question. Arlowe13’s table and graph show data for total deer killed during each year’s Traditional 16-day Firearms Season (as opposed to kills with firearms equipment). Also, the Firearms Kill in the table and graph does not include the Late Antlerless Firearms Season data for 2012 through 2015. Those data are:

2012 = 10,091
2013 = 6,436
2014 = 4,171
2015 = 5,105

Arlowe13, thank you for posting some very nice, informative tables and graphs.

Pre-2012 data is irrelevant...and the 2016 data is comparatively tainted due to the inclusion of rifles. Based on what I'm seeing / hearing, there is nothing stable about the herd.

I could have killed just as many deer as ever this year had I wanted. Doesn't change the fact my deer sightings were the lowest I've experienced since the early 80's. Hunted the exact same property for the past quarter century....and never saw so few animals....early season and again in late season.

Point is, falling harvest numbers don't tell the entire story. I won't bother posting the well water comparison again....

Since I don't know the area you hunt I can't speak for that but the two areas I hunt I have seen one produce better then the other and vice versa year in and year out... This year I only hunted one and not the other but the one I didn't hunt my buddy's wife told me she hasn't seen very many deer this year so hopefully if I hunt there
this year hopefully it will be better...

I have no objective data but it has taken more effort to kill deer the past couple years for me. There are still plenty of deer, just not as many as there used to be. I don't know if that is a good or bad thing in the broader sense.

I have no fear that the deer herd can rebound from just about anything we do in the modern conservation ethic era. In that sense the deer herd is as stable as it needs to be.

In the end, if herd reduction is having the designed effect, harvest numbers should lower and settle out. I know many hunters don't like it, but that's what is supposed to happen. Does that mean somewhere around 120,000 is the "new normal" as far as harvest totals goes? I don't know, but based on the last few seasons that's where the numbers are.

That doesn't mean there aren't areas that may have had too many deer taken (or in some cases, perceived to have had too many deer taken), but to expect the DNR to be able to "micro manage" the herd by sections of counties is unrealistic. IMO, that responsibility falls to the hunters.

Things that seemingly get lost in the endless arguments on forums such as these, are the effects that hunter numbers, hunter density, loss of habitat due to development, and today's farming practices have on deer numbers as well.

Regardless, I'm looking forward to seeing the new harvest report and the breakdown of data it provides.

119,315

100% agree. All the bickering and nitpicking aside, this is the truth of it. DNR wanted the herd reduced, their plan worked and we see less deer. We as deer hunters may not like it, but to not understand that is like letting the air out of your tire then wondering why you have a flat. And in areas everyone is up in arms about seeing zero deer and saying something needs to change, it comes down to exactly what you laid out, not only is the DNR not going to micro manage areas (especially on only one or two year's data), but there are a lot of variables in each area that they don't have control over.

final tally .... 119,460/Feb 2 @ 10pm central