Pistol cartridge rifles no-go on public land

Word has it pistol cartridge rifles are no longer legal on public land

Waiting on confirmation email from DNR

IC 14-22-2-8Deer hunting; permitted firearms; required report

Sec. 8. (a) This section applies to a hunting season beginning after June 30, 2016, and ending before January 1, 2020.
(b) A hunter may use a rifle during the firearms season to hunt deer subject to the following:
(1) The use of a rifle is permitted only on privately owned land.
(2) The rifle must have a barrel length of at least sixteen (16) inches.
(3) The rifle must be chambered for a cartridge that fires a bullet that is two hundred forty-three thousandths (.243) of an inch in diameter or larger.
(4) The rifle must fire a cartridge that has a minimum case length of one and sixteen-hundredths (1.16) inches, but is no longer than three (3) inches.
(5) A hunter may not possess more than ten (10) cartridges for the rifle while hunting deer under this section.
(6) The rifle must meet any other requirements established by the department.
(c) The use of a full metal jacketed bullet to hunt deer is unlawful.
(d) The department shall report on the impact of the use of rifles to hunt deer under this section to the governor and, in an electronic format under IC 5-14-6, the general assembly before February 15, 2020.
(e) This section expires June 30, 2020.
As added by P.L.110-2016, SEC.1. Amended by P.L.195-2017, SEC.7.

So is there anything to all hubub, I saw the discussion online and there seems to be some confusion. I'm sighted in and ready.....i think.

Everything I'm reading from people who have had direct contact with COs and the DNR are saying that pcrs and hprs are not going to be allowed on public ground this deer season.

I don't hunt on public ground, but I've contacted the DNR, my state representatives and the Governor over the handling of this issue and the fact that the hunting guide says that pcrs are allowed on public ground (which they have been) while hprs (which weren't ever allowed) are not.

Will they change it back to allow pcrs this season? I don't know, but folks sitting on their hands doing nothing surely won't change anything.

What are the rifle cartridge size requirements for Firearms Season?

The Department of Natural Resources has received numerous questions regarding recent legislation that legalizes certain rifles for deer hunting beginning in November of 2017. Most questions have to do with calibers and cartridges allowed under the new law.

House Enrolled Act 1415 that was passed earlier this year by the Indiana General Assembly (state legislators) and signed by the Governor allows some additional rifle cartridges to be used on private land during the deer firearms season, but removed the ability for any rifle to be used on public land for deer hunting.

A summary of the rifle requirements for deer hunting on private land are as follows:

The rifle must have a barrel length of at least 16 inches
The rifle cartridges must have a cartridge case length of least 1.16 inches and have a maximum case length of 3 inches
The cartridge must fire a bullet with a diameter that is .243 inches (same as 6mm) or larger
A hunter may not possess more than 10 such cartridges for each of these rifles while hunting deer
These new rifle cartridges may only be used on private land
Full metal jacketed bullets are illegal
These new rifle cartridges may be used during the youth deer season, deer firearms season, special antlerless firearm season (where open), and deer reduction season (in deer reduction zones where local ordinances allow the use of a firearm from the start of the regular firearms season through the end of the following January)
All the cartridges that were legal in recent years are legal now only on private land, even though the DNR has allowed them in years past on public land.

Rifle cartridges that are legal under this new law (HEA 1415) include, but are not limited to, the following:

6mm-06
6mm BR Remington
6mm PPC
6mm Remington
.240 Weatherby
.243 Winchester
.243 Winchester Super Short Magnum
.25 Remington
.25-06 Remington
.270 Winchester
.30 Carbine
.30 Herrett
.30 Remington AR
.30-06 Springfield
.30-30 Winchester
.30-40 Krag
.300 AAC Blackout (.300 Whisper)
.300 H&H Magnum
.300 Remington Short Action Ultra Magnum
.300 Savage
.300 Weatherby Magnum
.300 Winchester Magnum
.300 Winchester Short Magnum
.300 Remington Ultra Magnum
.303 British
.307 Winchester
.308 Marlin
.308 Winchester
.32 Winchester SL
.35 Remington
.38-55 Winchester
.40 S&W
.444 Marlin
.45-70 Government
6.5 Creedmoor
6.8 SPC
7.62x39mm
7.62x54mmR

My question is this: Was the removal of all rifle cartridges on Public land intentional or was it a mistake in the way the legislation was written. I DO hunt on public and have spent years and hard earned dollars building legal guns based on the rules. This will put me back to using a muzzle loader which I can do, but why was this not publicized earlier.....and did kids hunt public with 44'sand 357's in youth season? I never heard anything about this until just recently and it's not being handled well imo

Well I do know on the F&W areas the newer calibers are not allowed (.243+), they were not allowed last season, nor this season.... dont know about the cowboy calibers and the specific case length rifles .. I havent been to JP recently because of work and this **** hot weather... I'll be there tomorrow AM and see if anything is posted in the self service check in ..

Yeah the high power stuff is off limits on public, but pcr's like 357/358, 44's and many other formerly legal calibers will be sidelined now if this is true. I wish DNR would clarify. Let us know if anything is posted.....Thanks

I was at my safety briefing at big oaks on friday morning and the gentleman giving the briefing said they were notified Thursday that no cowboy rounds can be used on public ground including big oaks since they follow state statutes. I have confirmed this with the DNR and the local CO. Very few people know this. The hunting guide was printed before the law was passed so I think they should go by the book. Just my opinion

they have to go by the law, not the book

No rifles on public

The intent of the law is at question. This could be overturned as it sounds like inept politicians "crafted" the legislation as they say and botched the final due to a lack of understanding. Ridiculous how this is being handled if it's true. I've already fired off emails and encourage others to do so as well. Many hunters have years of building and using these PCRs because we follow the laws and now due to an apparent error by a political body and we get cold shootin irons? I don't think so.....not taking this one laying down. May send something to the NRA, they publicized it as a big victory making high powers legal without change to public land regs, that's how it was billed to the public.

Wow, gov't is closed for Columbus day. Gonna make my arguments even more vociferous when I get the chance. Join me tomorrow and call your......legislators (I'm being nice)....another couple emails fired off.

I think the HPR was passed by going to the legislature and bypassing the rules making process
I think a bed was made that now has to be slept in !
Legislature wanted to be used you got it !
Is what I'm reading in all this could be wrong

I think,
and I don't know...but I think they are worried about the confusion and are just erring on the safe side and saying NO RIFLES rather than making the CO's deal with all these questions while out in the field. It is rather confusing having a list as long as the one we have. I'M CONFUSED. I mean why do we have to list all those rifles?

WTH?

Why do they burn up our tax dollars printing the book only to change the laws after printing?
I think they should wait until next season to do any changes since the reg. books are already out.
Doesn't make me any differance I shoot a pistol for deer.

I just bought the ruger .450 bushmaster because the DNR sight and regs says its legal on public ground. I have bought my ammo and sighted in. if the dnr sight and rules doesn't change before the season I will carry my new .450bushmaster. Not my fault if they can't make up there minds and wait until the last minute right before the season to start this rumor.

I had to order this new ruger bolt action and its just for deer hunting. If they change the law this late in the game, they should give me my money back................

there has yet to be a final decision, at least from what I was told today .... maybe within a day or two on what the directive will be ... Nothing has been posted yet at ANY of the F&W areas ... they are waiting to see what the final word will be... my gut feeling is that will have to follow the letter of the law, and try to get the news out the best they can to the public who use these calibers or plan to on state/public lands.... will this also effect the YUUUUGe Hoosier Nat. Forest lands I wonder ....

Yes it will apply to the Hoosier NF, if it stands. But I dont think it will stand either. Someone or some entity will challenge this in court if they try to stand on it and I would be more than glad to get in on funding legal action if it comes to it.

Neither Govenor Holcomb nor Director Clark have returned my emails or phone calls, but somebody's got some explaining to do. Their 2 names are in the top of IN DNR letterhead, so the buck stops right there. They can't hide and cover it up forever, eventually the truth has to come out and the incompetence exposed. This has ticked me off more than any other move the IN DNR/IN Govt entanglement has ever done. Just backward and underhanded.

They may think public land hunters are a bunch of backwards bug eaters, well they can think again. I'll see them in court if it comes to it and I am 110% serious. If anyone wants to pool resources to fight this government overreach, get w me and let's organize a hunter's rights defense fund. I know plenty of attorneys and will be joined in fighting this if it comes to it. I've been hunting our public lands for 20 plus years and I will not accept this late development without due process.

read here... http://www.hoosierhunting.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/7747/2.html#000016

Sorry but this is nothing but BS, semi-auto rifled barrel shotguns are more dangerous than PCR. All Weapons in the wrong hands can be dangerous. Lets see 2018, recurred bows only and only 1 arrow allowed. Vote these idiots out of office in the next election.

I guess if this stands I will not be deer hunting this year. Sold my only deer shotgun about 5 years ago to get the PCR which was legal for public land hunting. Good thing I haven't purchased a license this year.

If all the hunters would stand down for one year, they would think twice before changing things at the last min. and listen to us. They would lose a bunch of money and money talks

This is what I see for the 2018 Deer Season in Indiana:

(1) The State will reconsider the use of P.C.Rs to become legal for Deer Hunting on Some State Forests as well as the Hoosier National Forest. However State Game Areas, like Sugar Ridge, etc, will not allow them. Also, the use of P.C.Rs on private property will need to meet certain requirements like: Hunting area must be greater than 50 acres, and nearby homes must be at least 500 yards from the property, and also businesses, roads, or developments must not be near the hunting property. Areas regarded as unsafe to use P.C.R. or any firearm will only be open to Archery equipment such as cross bows and regular compound bows, mainly in high population Counties. (2) The use of High Powered rifles will not be permitted anywhere in the State of Indiana. Reasons include: population density, subdivisions, strip malls, and busy roads. The state officials will most likely state: “they acted too hasty in allowing certain High Powered rifles, in regards to the given reasons", thus will correct this due to safety reasons. (3) The use of "Rifled" Sabot slug firing shotguns, handguns, and also muzzle loaders will be legal equipment in safe public hunting areas, yet to be determined, but again the population density will play a role in the States’ decision. I might be wrong, but I have a feeling Deer Hunting in Indiana will undergo sweeping changes next year.

If just the greater than 50 acres/within 500 yards portion of your post were implemented, that would mean that very few deer hunters would be hunting with ANY firearm on private ground....Period.

Now that may be what you envision, but from a financial and herd management standpoint, it would be a huge mistake IMO.

The State of Indiana already made a huge mistake, considering on that is going on with this P.C.R vs H.P. rifles, and where each is legal to use. Accordingly, most Counties are too highly populated and developed to allow the use of H.P.rifles for hunting Deer. The minimum 50 acre requirement + 500 yards from nearest home or any commercial development would insure safety for folks that that live in/near such. Those areas would still allow shotgun slugs, M/Ls & Archery equipment. State Forest & National Forests in Indiana would still allow the use of P.C.R.s, however Indiana is simply too populated & flat to allow High Powered rifles like .308 .30-06 firing rifles.

They need to simplify it, not make it more complex. Legislative error has now been admitted by the bills author, Sean Eberhart. FIX IT DNR and INDIANA POLITICIANS. BEFORE SEASON!!!!!


https://www.google.com/amp/fox59.co...no-longer-use-rifles-on-public-land/amp/

I agree it's was rude for the "Powers-That-Be" to simply pull the rug beneath Deer Hunters, by amending the rules regarding H.P. & P.C.Rs right at the start of Deer Season. However, the fact remains that besides changing the laws; there is the fact that suitable hunting land in Indiana is shrinking. The D.N.R. & Regulatory Com. has to weight hunting with safety. With Highways & roads being built along and through prime hunting grounds, "Urban Sprawl" along with a growing population of people; makes it necessary to balance safety with hunting.

You do realize it was a mistake/accident this happened ???

drs As was debated to death 10 years ago....

If you compare the ballistics of 20 gauge saboted slug gun ammo, the "standard" .50 caliber muzzleloader loads of two 777 pellets and a .250 grain bullet and compare that to .44 mag ballistics out of a rifle, they are all very similar...

Similar velocity, similar energy, similar bullet construction and weight....which equates to similar range and performance. BTW, it's not just Indiana that recognized that. Ohio and now Iowa have adopted pcrs for deer hunting since Indiana did too...

And while you can find a wildcat pcr or two to make your point, a fixed barrel slug gun like the Savage 220 is considered a 200 yard gun by many and Remington advertises their newest muzzleloader as their 300 yard muzzleloader.

So in reality, to meet your criteria there would be a very small percentage of private properties that ANY shotgun, m/l, pcr or hpr could be used during the deer season.

According to the author of the bill (Representative Eberhart) to allow the expansion of HPR calibers, this was NOT the intention of the bill. Apparently the wording in the bill screwed this up by stating that rifles were only to be used on private land. The intent was HPR's, not the straight wall rounds, but the wording was generic and therefore the straight walls fall into a rifle category under the letter of the law. He admitted that he was wrong as were all that supposedly read the bill, voted on the bill, including IDNR who reviewed the bill before a vote. In his statement, he said that they are trying to figure out a solution for yet this year and worst case it will be addressed for 2018 this coming January.

I'm not defending the guy ... just reporting what is on public record. To me it sounds like it was originally an honest mistake on his part, but then gross negligence on the part of all of those who reviewed this bill before it went to vote. It is a sad example of how our government must "approve the bill to know what is in the bill" ... to steal from the legendary Obamacare supporter Nancy Pelosi. The "Swamp" is bigger than Washington DC apparently.

We shall see what they come-up with to fix the problem with equipment used to harvest Deer in Indiana. However, you can't argue the fact that good hunting grounds are becoming harder & harder to find due to Urban expansion & sprawl. Glad I moved to Kentucky now.

DRS If they leave pcrs on both public and private ground in the future, and restrict the use of hprs to private ground until it's revisited in 2020, I would be fine with that.

As far as sprawl goes, that's a huge problem.

But if you think the pcr debate was contentious, wait until the state tries to tell people they can't hunt deer with a firearm that's been legal for them to use on their private ground for years.

Yes, the 50 acre and 500 yard limits would put the min size parcel to hunt at near 400 acres.

Yes, the 50 acre and 500 yard limits would put the min size parcel to hunt at near 400 acres.

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I see your point, Roadkill. On smaller hunt areas one could still use archery equipment or shotgun slugs (Foster type),in those smaller areas, where it's safe to use. This issue, we're discussing, is complex in several ways requiring answers to make it safe and fair for all.