Opinions

Thought this would be a fun topic and I'd like to know what Y'all think?

After all my years of hunting deer, talking to other hunters, telling and hearing stories...I've come to the conclusion that in MOST cases, Mature bucks don't HAVE to go searching and running all over in search of does. I believe that most of the time, when they witness smaller bucks chasing does, if they smell or declare the doe to be ready, they just waltz up and take her. I've seen it. Buddies have seen it.
My feeling, and I'm sure others will disagree, is that some deer or in this case bucks, just like some humans, tend to be more timid or I like to say scared of everything. You know, some are risk takers and some of us never volunteer to go first but rather choose to watch Mr big shot take a chance on getting hurt or looking bad. I believe bucks are the same way. I believe from the time they are fawns, some just don't take chances. I believe these are the ones who make it to maturity. They make it because when the woods starts gathering human scent(bow season) they start getting nervous and go nocturnal. I believe MANY if not MOST mature bucks NEVER go anywhere FIRST. I've seen it! Almost every mature buck I've seen was 70-100 yards behind a 2 1/2yr old buck. Think about this: How many true STUDS have broken antlers? My theory: They aren't fighting over a doe. It's not who they are. They're naturally timid. That's how they lived so long.
Not all of them, But many of them. They don't HAVE to fight a small buck because he will run from the big boy.
That's my thoughts...lets have some fun...
#getatme

the young dumb ones are the first to go on a wild chase when the does are not ready yet. I do believe the older bucks wait and many will be bedded by first light even during the rut and ONLY move at mid day when the does are bedded (and many hunters not in the field) and approach from downwind of bedding.

I have also seen some old bucks bed in the smallest spots a hunter would never think to look and ONLY come out at last light to check does.

I agree with your point, the Mature bucks are often the last ones who enter a field.

The 1.5 and 2.5's yo's are the first ones which end up in the backs of trucks on opening day though!

Not sure I would use words like "timid", "scared" or "nervous" to describe mature buck behavior? Probably lean towards words like "cautious", "careful" or "wary" instead.

I do believe mature bucks are virtually nocturnal by nature....and it doesn't take much human intrusion to push them into 100% nocturnal mode...with the exception of the rut.

I would agree the truly mature buck doesn't fight alot. This because he doesn't have to fight...rather than being unwilling to fight. Like you said, the younger bucks are not going to pick a fight with a mature buck. In a state like Indiana, where such a small percentage of bucks live to see to maturity, true breeding competition from other mature bucks is more rare than the norm.

During the majority of the year, a mature buck will almost always allow younger deer to run interference for him. But, even the mature buck will let his guard down at times during the rut. I believe this to happen at the onset of the rut, when the first few does come into estrous....and to a greater extent AFTER the peak of the rut...when the mature buck is scrambling to locate the last of the does in estrous. I firmly believe the absolute BEST time to kill a mature buck, based solely on his natural behavior, is the week AFTER peak breeding. I always plan my bowhunting trips to Iowa, Kansas, Ohio, etc... after anticipated peak breeding dates.

Love it!
My choice of words may be hard to swallow, but my point is there are big strong men who wouldn't fight if you punched them in the mouth. If you stole their girl.I think animals are the same way. I think they have personalities if you will.

I also agree that they will let their guard down during the rut, but I think many of them ESPECIALLY in areas that get pressured...will completely give up daytime movement. I think there are more mature bucks on and around public land than most people believe, but they aren't showing themselves. NO WAY you live through opening weekend of the Indiana firearms season if breeding a doe is worth chasing her 200 yds in daylight.

Paul, why is it that you think AFTER the peak of the rut is better than the beginning? I'm intrigued by this? I had always figured they'd "Had their fill" if you will and were less uh, desperate for it?

" there are more mature bucks on and around public land than most people believe, but they aren't showing themselves. NO WAY you live through opening weekend of the Indiana firearms season if breeding a doe is worth chasing her 200 yds in daylight."

agreed.

The biggest bucks I have seen in Indiana were while spotlighting PUBLIC land. Giants who I never saw during daylight.

76, Me too!
I've seen a couple bean fields below HNF in late summer that had 10+ mature bucks at one time including 3-4 Booners! They're there...they just really hole up tight during the day.

Mike, this is my opinion on whitetail rut behavior...whatever that is worth?

Immature bucks go into the rut kind of like young children at Christmas. They know it is coming and will do anything they can in an attempt to hurry it along. Mature bucks, on the other hand, are more patient...know the rut is coming...but don't lose their heads until the first does actually come into estrous. Hunters get a short window of opportunity here.

During the peak of the rut, mature bucks can be very tough to hunt. They tend to hole up with an estrous doe....more so to keep her away from other bucks than due to hunting pressure. Can be a frustrating time to be in a tree.

But during the tail end of the primary rut...when there are very few does left to breed...mature bucks know the "once a year window" is closing fast. They will cover more ground than normal... during more hours of the day...in search of that last receptive doe. This behavior can drag out a week or two...depending on what's actually available (receptive does).

I will say such behavior is much more apparent in states with post rut firearms seasons. What happens in Indiana for 16 days during the primary rut tends to change the playing field.

Good enough. Makes sense. I agree totally that what happens here in gun season really changes the game. Maybe that's why I've never seen what you're talking about? Good stuff as always
I'll tell ya, in my opinion...too much hunting pressure in an area/woodlot changes the entire rut more than anything. I've only had the opportunity to hunt lightly pressured woods in early November a few times and it's absolutely amazing how different mature bucks let their guard down. I feel it's almost a different sport. This is why lately I've been so reluctant to lease land. if I KNEW i could keep everyone out...It would be worth every penny

I agree pav, though I always hunt hard form October 31st I have discovered after the primary rut to be good hunting.
The last 4 out of 6 years I've killed bucks on November 16, 17, 17 and 29th (Kansas). With the lowest scoring being a 146" 8pt. Three were grunted in to my set and the fourth was patrolling around the edge of a cut corn field looking for does, I believe.
In 2014 I killed a 138" 9pt on November 25th. So 5 of my last 6 bucks have been taken in the back half of November. All but one, have been Indiana bucks.

There are many that are OLD
There are many that are BOLD
But there are **** few that are Old and Bold

Not to argue any of these theories, but has there not been studies done about buck movement during the rut that proves or disproves any of these ideas.

Not posting theories....rather communicating observations. The best whitetail deer studies are done from trees IMO.....

As I read responses, I'm realizing that MY experience has been mainly with heavily pressured whitetails. With this in mind, I stand on my idea that many mature bucks just aren't going to risk dying for the company of a doe...but WILL however partake if a couple teenagers bring a hot doe into his bedroom.
I hunted a large tract of land for a few years with very little pressure here in Indiana and it was unbelievable how visible mature bucks were during the day. They were EVERY WHERE EVERY DAY starting November 1st. Since then, these guys on tv that kill big ones every year in Iowa or Illinois on land they have exclusive permission to hunt don't impress me at all. Those deer let their guard down BIG TIME.
I didn't kill any huge bucks those three years but I saw a buch of them. I passed 130-140" deer 10 yards away because I hade 170" deer 50 yards away. But that same land became open to the public and it took about 3 years to be ruined. I still saw big ones, but they were completely different characters.

Great Post! Doesn't it depend on the buck to doe ratio? 8:1 not much fighting. 2:1 much more fighting.

Strut, I haven't taken it any other way, I like camp fire chats. I read every post because I'm always looking for tips, hints, idea's that may help me be successful.
I merely posted my experiences / successes from the last few years with the thought that just because its past peak rut doesn't mean the good hunting is over. I agree that hunting pressure does play a role in mature buck movements.

Great read;)