Re: Indiana #2 White tail Rating
#7684
09/09/2014 11:33 AM
09/09/2014 11:33 AM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,873 Indiana
DawnPatrol
River Rat
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River Rat
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,873
Indiana
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Good read......I'm proud to be hunting deer in the Hoosier state!!!
Hunting, Fishing, and Trapping is where it's @!!!!!
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Re: Indiana #2 White tail Rating
#7686
09/09/2014 12:02 PM
09/09/2014 12:02 PM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,449 Seymour
pav
Hoosier Hunter
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Hoosier Hunter
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,449
Seymour
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Three words....Private Deer Management
There are none so blind as those who will not see.
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Re: Indiana #2 White tail Rating
#7687
09/09/2014 12:30 PM
09/09/2014 12:30 PM
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,035 Randolph County
Magnum hunter
Hoosier Hunter
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Hoosier Hunter
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,035
Randolph County
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Originally Posted by DawnPatrol: Good read......I'm proud to be hunting deer in the Hoosier state!!! Yes, and me too!
"The more I live, the more I learn. The more I learn, the more I realize, the less I know."
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Re: Indiana #2 White tail Rating
#7688
09/09/2014 04:46 PM
09/09/2014 04:46 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,338
John Scifres
Hoosier Hunter
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Hoosier Hunter
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,338
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On top of that, Indiana has a solid whitetail population of 1 million and an equal amount of acreage of public land to pursue them on. Additionally, since Indiana hasn’t become as over-run with outfitters as some Midwest states, private land access is still quite available with some hard work pounding the pavement and knocking on doors. Similar to our other top picks for DIY hunters, Indiana is an affordable option as well, with $150 over the counter non-resident licenses. I wonder where they got that population estimate???
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Re: Indiana #2 White tail Rating
#7689
09/09/2014 05:39 PM
09/09/2014 05:39 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,595 Indpls,In US
jbwhttail
Hoosier Hunter
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Hoosier Hunter
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,595
Indpls,In US
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pulled it from their ARSE! low outfitters? try contacting landowners.......... Cheap license...... yea......... and what does that have to do with big antlers?
Pav has it correct.......... "PRIVATE" deer management. We do it on "OUR" ground....... you don't get the same chance or experience on public ground. Good story, like Texas says...... "Big hat no cattle".
When science meets tradition there will be sparks.....
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Re: Indiana #2 White tail Rating
#7690
09/09/2014 07:22 PM
09/09/2014 07:22 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 342
blackoak
Hoosier Hunter
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Hoosier Hunter
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 342
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Originally posted by jbwhttail: pulled it from their ARSE! low outfitters? try contacting landowners.......... Cheap license...... yea......... and what does that have to do with big antlers?
Pav has it correct.......... "PRIVATE" deer management. We do it on "OUR" ground....... you don't get the same chance or experience on public ground. Good story, like Texas says...... "Big hat no cattle". When was the last time you hunted public ground Joe??? to be able to make such a statement Big antlers are the main reason land owners will not allow access to their ground unless you have deep pockets. 20 years ago getting permission usually only cost you a hand shake and a couple packages of tender loins that today will cost you a grand. Killing does and little bucks has nothing to do with this change.
Blackoak Lazy Moron Dirtbag X-bow user
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Re: Indiana #2 White tail Rating
#7691
09/10/2014 02:02 AM
09/10/2014 02:02 AM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,449 Seymour
pav
Hoosier Hunter
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Hoosier Hunter
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,449
Seymour
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Originally posted by blackoak: Originally posted by jbwhttail: [b] pulled it from their ARSE! low outfitters? try contacting landowners.......... Cheap license...... yea......... and what does that have to do with big antlers?
Pav has it correct.......... "PRIVATE" deer management. We do it on "OUR" ground....... you don't get the same chance or experience on public ground. Good story, like Texas says...... "Big hat no cattle". When was the last time you hunted public ground Joe??? to be able to make such a statement Big antlers are the main reason land owners will not allow access to their ground unless you have deep pockets. 20 years ago getting permission usually only cost you a hand shake and a couple packages of tender loins that today will cost you a grand. Killing does and little bucks has nothing to do with this change. [/b]I believe you are helping to drive the point home...whether that was your intention or not. Twenty years ago, Indiana was a mere blip on the B&C map. Killing does and little bucks was the norm. Back then, 2/3rds of the antlered bucks in the annual harvest were yearlings. The idea of a "one buck rule" was proposed and overwhelmingly dismissed. Deer hunter attitudes changed quickly though...and by the turn of the century, the "quality over quantity" movement was building steam. Two years later, despite objections from the IDNR, the one buck rule was implemented. Since then, I cannot think of one new rule change implemented by the IDNR which even remotely addresses growing bigger deer? Maybe I'm forgetting something?...but for the most part, our deer regulation changes since OBR have gone in the opposite direction. What has changed is hunter attitude and level of commitment. People got tired of waiting for the IDNR to change...so they took it upon themselves to manage their own deer hunting grounds. I hunt an 800 acre farm that experiences more general firearm hunting pressure than most public ground. BUT...that property is surrounded by three other farms totaling over 3,400 acres...all of which is being managed for big whitetails. That keeps things interesting on the farm I hunt, especially during the rut. Last year alone, I know of three B&C bucks taken from those three properties...and we had a "near miss" killed opening day of firearms season on the farm. While I don't share the optimism of the author on a statewide basis...there is no question Indiana is producing bigger deer than twenty years ago. But at least give credit where credit is due....that being private deer management.
There are none so blind as those who will not see.
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Re: Indiana #2 White tail Rating
#7694
09/10/2014 06:32 AM
09/10/2014 06:32 AM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,081 N.E. Indiana, Spitting distanc...
hornharvester
Hoosier Hunter
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Hoosier Hunter
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,081
N.E. Indiana, Spitting distanc...
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Originally posted by traditionalarcher17: How many people before the obr actually killed two bucks per year? I beleive the number is close to 5000. h.h.
If you're not a hemorrhoid, get off my butt.
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Re: Indiana #2 White tail Rating
#7695
09/10/2014 06:43 AM
09/10/2014 06:43 AM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,449 Seymour
pav
Hoosier Hunter
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Hoosier Hunter
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,449
Seymour
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Originally posted by THROBAK: In a way do you think the regs we have in place could have had a sort of Collateral damage result, that being bigger bucks,, Maybe that wasnt the intent but it happened . I would agree the implementation of OBR accelerated the "quality" movement curve. Since then, I can't envision any regulation changes having a positive affect on quality?
There are none so blind as those who will not see.
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Re: Indiana #2 White tail Rating
#7696
09/10/2014 07:14 AM
09/10/2014 07:14 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,057 Southern Indiana
jjas
Hoosier Hunter
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Hoosier Hunter
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,057
Southern Indiana
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Originally posted by hornharvester: Originally posted by traditionalarcher17: [b] How many people before the obr actually killed two bucks per year? I believe the number is close to 5000. h.h. [/b]IMO, there are several things that have helped Indiana along the way. 1. Getting/allowing people to kill does has been huge. When I started hunting, people were told not to kill does and it's taken years to change that attitude. I know there are people who say we are killing too many does now, but I think the DNR is doing a good job lowering bonus antlerless permits and pulling counties out of the late antlerless season. 2. Another obvious, major change has been hunter attitudes towards bucks. If you want big bucks, you can't kill little ones. And while I fully support the right of hunters to to kill whatever buck they choose to, I personally don't shoot buttons or young bucks. 3. Food. Whether it's leaving a corn/bean field standing, planting specialized food plots, planting mast and fruit trees, etc, I think it's definitely been a plus. 4. The obr gets a lot of credit and I'm not denying that it has had an impact, but as HH's number above illustrates...we're only talking about hunters killing an additonal 5,000 bucks a year before it's implementation. What I feel the obr has done more than anything is make more people think about the buck they are willing to harvest as (for most) it will be their only one for the season. I know I've let bucks walk that I might have taken before the change occurred. And while others don't agree, I think the IDNR has done a very good job of managing the resource, while trying to strike a good balance for ALL hunters and residents of the state in addition to generating income in the process. We have plenty of opportunity, varied seasons/equipment choices, good numbers of deer and good numbers of trophy deer. And quite frankly, I see all of that as a positive.
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Re: Indiana #2 White tail Rating
#7697
09/10/2014 08:04 AM
09/10/2014 08:04 AM
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,376 Indianapois, IN, USA
delaney
Hoosier Hunter
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Hoosier Hunter
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,376
Indianapois, IN, USA
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The growing aspect of the sport that probably has had the biggest influence is money and Indiana has a ways to go on that yet. Private land management only takes on the role that is being talked about when you apply the money factor. Once money comes even stronger into the equation, OBR becomes less and less a factor on properties where big bucks will become the norm. This fascination about B&C is mostly a fascination by a lot of people but not an expectation or reality that most really wish to apply to their hunting experience. I just spent a weekend in Kentucky at one of the premier outfitters, I didn't hunt, and while I doubt if I am anywhere close to actually understanding that business, I believe I have a pretty good assessment of the outfitting world, the hunters who hunt those situations and what management is all about. They would say it's about producing big bucks, but it's not. It's about money, and that money comes solely from managing inventory, access and marketing, marketing, marketing. The deer themselves are nothing more then a unique loaf of bread on the shelf. These operations could care less about OBR and these operations are producing a lot of the 160 range deer and the B&C deer in that State, although certainly many nice deer come from private landowners who aren't outfitters. It was a fascinating weekend to watch from a distance, analyze and assess. If Indiana goes to high powered rifles and were to ever allow baiting, someone find about 15,000 acres to manage/lease and the business model is quite attractive. The DNR's only control point is season length for the non managed properties and everything else is just fluff.
"Fishing is like a one night stand, unless you're fly fishing, then you've encountered the romance of your life"
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Re: Indiana #2 White tail Rating
#7698
09/10/2014 08:05 AM
09/10/2014 08:05 AM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,807 Montgomery County
76chevy
Hoosier Hunter
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Hoosier Hunter
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,807
Montgomery County
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Yes, +1 on this. Plenty of opportunity for a buck in Indiana with our regulations right now. I can kill 5 bucks between the urban, regular, park hunts, and military hunts. Originally posted by jjas: ...... I know I've let bucks walk that I might have taken before the change occurred.
And while others don't agree, I think the IDNR has done a very good job of managing the resource, while trying to strike a good balance for ALL hunters and residents of the state in addition to generating income in the process. We have plenty of opportunity, varied seasons/equipment choices, good numbers of deer and good numbers of trophy deer.
And quite frankly, I see all of that as a positive.
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Re: Indiana #2 White tail Rating
#7699
09/10/2014 08:21 AM
09/10/2014 08:21 AM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,449 Seymour
pav
Hoosier Hunter
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Hoosier Hunter
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,449
Seymour
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Originally posted by delaney: This fascination about B&C is mostly a fascination by a lot of people but not an expectation or reality that most really wish to apply to their hunting experience. I agree. B&C entries are being used as a yardstick...much more than an expectation. I've been deer hunting for 35 years, and been selective for more than two decades of that time. I have seen exactly three "no doubt" B&C bucks on the hoof in my lifetime. Two of those sightings happened the same day in Iowa. If a B&C buck is one's expectation...that person best be prepared to eat ALOT of buck tags.
There are none so blind as those who will not see.
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Re: Indiana #2 White tail Rating
#7700
09/10/2014 09:25 AM
09/10/2014 09:25 AM
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,376 Indianapois, IN, USA
delaney
Hoosier Hunter
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Hoosier Hunter
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,376
Indianapois, IN, USA
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I see many, many outfitters now seeking to define the experience of hunting a "mature" buck, not a big buck, not a P&Y, not a B&C. Of course, that word leaves a lot open to opinionated interpretation. The camp this weekend that I had exposure to had a 168, in velvet as a top score and somewhere near a 115 in velvet at the other end of the spectrum with a few in between those numbers. Everyone was happy with what they shot regardless of size and certainly considered them "mature".
Indiana's DNR is going a pretty darn good job, in combination with private management, with the balancing act of serving it's customers.
"Fishing is like a one night stand, unless you're fly fishing, then you've encountered the romance of your life"
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Re: Indiana #2 White tail Rating
#7701
09/10/2014 10:49 AM
09/10/2014 10:49 AM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,449 Seymour
pav
Hoosier Hunter
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Hoosier Hunter
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,449
Seymour
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Originally posted by delaney: Indiana's DNR is going a pretty darn good job, in combination with private management, with the balancing act of serving it's customers. Now THAT is a comment open to many interpretations!
There are none so blind as those who will not see.
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Re: Indiana #2 White tail Rating
#7702
09/10/2014 12:22 PM
09/10/2014 12:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,595 Indpls,In US
jbwhttail
Hoosier Hunter
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Hoosier Hunter
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,595
Indpls,In US
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Blackoak:
I don't need to physically hunt a public property to know what it holds, talking to people who do hunt there ,reading on forums their experiences and monitoring the Hoosier Record Book gives a broad picture. And then there is the management of those properties.
Are you aware of any Fish&Wildlife property that allows the use of bonus antlerless permits? I'm not.... they are trying to keep enough does to reproduce a antlered buck to shoot. State forests and the Hoosier allows bonus permits to help with deer populations on "PRIVATE PROPERTIES" that IDNR can not control.
I look at where Hoosier Record Book bucks are coming from constantly(lucky I have access to all the records of deer scored) less than one percent come from public land! I admire those who are successful, but the honest truth is they were in the right spot at the right time....LUCKY! Property that protects bucks and manages the doe population is the answer to the Indiana surge in record book deer without a doubt.
Several years ago there was a proposal to take 3 Fish&wildlife properties(1 north, 1 central and 1 south) and divide them into 2 areas, one you could kill any deer and another area with some sort of antler restriction and see what happened over three years. IDNR would not do it, why? IMO it would show restrictions on harvest WILL improve antler size.
For years I have told people they need to buy hunting land, soon they will only have three choices, own lease or hunt public land. now we see leasing is exploding and the handshake with a property owner is about to disapear. The property next door to me(200 acres) never made it to a listing by the realator, it sold for $400,000.00 cash! the person purchasing the property already owns 1200 acres in the next county over, it was bought to deer hunt. His reasoning was the "potential" for big bucks, and yes, I have known him for years. Fescue fields killed and food plots added, habitat improvements galore, and a neighbor who said, "We will be the best neighbor you have." More competition for the mature bucks roaming my little piece of paradice,but......... In the long run a better experience for all of us. I found many years ago, to kill a mature buck, a mature buck has to live where you hunt. Public land IS NOT a safe enviroment for any deer with antlers.
PRIVATE deer management has pushed Indiana to the number 2 spot, not IDNR.
When science meets tradition there will be sparks.....
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Re: Indiana #2 White tail Rating
#7703
09/10/2014 01:16 PM
09/10/2014 01:16 PM
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,376 Indianapois, IN, USA
delaney
Hoosier Hunter
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Hoosier Hunter
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,376
Indianapois, IN, USA
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Heck, this weekend I had a guy from New Jersey show me trail camera pictures he said came from the old Newport property. He has joined a group that is leasing the property. It tells you how far people will travel just to deer hunt. This guy was hunting in Kentucky at the outfitter's place on a paid hunt. The point is, with the cost of leasing and then the work that goes along with leasing and making the property a good deer habitat property, a lot of guys are just taking 4 to 5 thousand and taking a 5 day deer hunting vacation instead of hunting in their home state. And, its really not about truly big bucks, but instead about decent bucks.
"Fishing is like a one night stand, unless you're fly fishing, then you've encountered the romance of your life"
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Re: Indiana #2 White tail Rating
#7704
09/10/2014 02:08 PM
09/10/2014 02:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,595 Indpls,In US
jbwhttail
Hoosier Hunter
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Hoosier Hunter
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,595
Indpls,In US
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You are correct Delaney.
People from the East/Southeast are thrilled to kill a buck over 130 inches. They have the dollars to spend and are happy for that "oppotunity". Think about it guys, Newport has been leased to an outfitter....... just a sign of the times a coming......
When science meets tradition there will be sparks.....
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Re: Indiana #2 White tail Rating
#7705
09/10/2014 02:23 PM
09/10/2014 02:23 PM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,289 PlainField, IN
BREW...
Hoosier Hunter
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Hoosier Hunter
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,289
PlainField, IN
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Originally posted by jbwhttail: You are correct Delaney.
People from the East/Southeast are thrilled to kill a buck over 130 inches. They have the dollars to spend and are happy for that "oppotunity". Think about it guys, Newport has been leased to an outfitter....... just a sign of the times a coming...... That's what happen at JPG at the very south end..... The new owner leased the land to and Outfitter!! I Believe all them hunters come from the south and southeast.
Guardian Of The One Buck Rule & Gunseason "Some people just need a good *** whoopin. It keeps the planets aligned"
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Re: Indiana #2 White tail Rating
#7709
09/10/2014 03:39 PM
09/10/2014 03:39 PM
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,099 Right where I belong
Double B
Hoosier Hunter
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Hoosier Hunter
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,099
Right where I belong
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And what about Newport? I hardly heard anything about that but I guess it's all lease basis now. That is one of the few times i can remember a public hunting area going private. Kind of scary. I depend on public ground and the high ranking may bring in more out of state hunter, but I do take pride in hunting areas that I know have produced some real nice bucks and hold them right now. From a competitive nature it's nice to be recognized with the traditional bigs.
Followed by Buzzards
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Re: Indiana #2 White tail Rating
#7711
09/10/2014 05:37 PM
09/10/2014 05:37 PM
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,376 Indianapois, IN, USA
delaney
Hoosier Hunter
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Hoosier Hunter
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,376
Indianapois, IN, USA
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HS, your private land comment is very true. Seasons length and weapon use can be meaningless if private management wants it to be.
"Fishing is like a one night stand, unless you're fly fishing, then you've encountered the romance of your life"
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Re: Indiana #2 White tail Rating
#7712
09/10/2014 07:11 PM
09/10/2014 07:11 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,057 Southern Indiana
jjas
Hoosier Hunter
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Hoosier Hunter
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,057
Southern Indiana
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Originally posted by delaney: HS, your private land comment is very true. Seasons length and weapon use can be meaningless if private management wants it to be. You both are absolutely correct...People can (and should) manage their ground, their way (within the game laws of course). They should hunt with the legal equipment of their choice and take part in the seasons they choose. But, what many hunters seem to forget is that deer aren't managed in this state just for hunters. Here's number one of the 10 common myths of deer management from Chad Stewart.... DEER MANAGEMENT IN INDIANA 10 COMMON MYTHS By Chad Stewart Myth 1: The DNR manages deer for deer hunters only. Indiana law mandates that the DNR manage deer and all wildlife for everyone in Indiana. The goal of the white-tailed deer management and research program is to maximize hunting and viewing opportunities while maintaining a deer population at a level consistent with ecological, social, and economic values of all Indiana citizens. It seems pretty clear to me....
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Re: Indiana #2 White tail Rating
#7716
09/11/2014 08:57 AM
09/11/2014 08:57 AM
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,099 Right where I belong
Double B
Hoosier Hunter
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Hoosier Hunter
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,099
Right where I belong
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Agree with the public land sentiment. There are some bruisers out there and we see big woods bucks every year. If you can take a mature buck on public, you have accomplished something my friend. I pay too much in taxes not to enjoy our natural resources. Plus the scenery is top notch. It's not for everyone but it can be very rewarding.
Followed by Buzzards
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Re: Indiana #2 White tail Rating
#7718
09/11/2014 09:58 AM
09/11/2014 09:58 AM
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,376 Indianapois, IN, USA
delaney
Hoosier Hunter
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Hoosier Hunter
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,376
Indianapois, IN, USA
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Originally posted by familytradition: I'm sad to say the JB is correct. My family has leased ground longer than anyone else I know in an effort to hunt our way, but in doing so we put many other hunters out. The future here is just like Europe, only the rich can afford to hunt. Buy any land you can. 10 acres is better than none. I'm saddened to think about my son's hunting future in Indiana and the whole US. Your comment about Europe is absolutely correct. Some will say it will never happen, but it will and has been progressing in that manner for many years. And, the situation is not about big deer, but about many other species as well.
"Fishing is like a one night stand, unless you're fly fishing, then you've encountered the romance of your life"
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